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Try to Deny (1 Viewer)

belthagor

Senior Member
we are living in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine...........

serious reply: I used to like this artist a while ago
 

gokedik

Senior Member
we are living in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine...........

serious reply: I used to like this artist a while ago
Well, this particular artist happens to have a message that is just as grand as the way he delivers it, but tends to stir people up as truth usually does. And, living in a yellow submarine isn't a problem, if we can decide who will be steering the thing. And that artist talked about revolution but it never grew past that, and maybe that was enough for the time, that time is over. Like wealth, freedom must be grabbed as it is not being handed out.
 

Seedy M.

Senior Member
I have lived where these people live. I share their life, the one thing that must not be shown to the people living in the cages of first world politics without the prior conditioning. A short stay in another place with another attitude, unless you're totally owned and ruled by those places, is that people who live where there is no religion and no politics are happy and free, even when you realize they are slaves at the same time.
People in populous crowded places are impotent to survive if things become intolerable, thus they tolerate the intolerable. The people living in the jungles, where food is there for the picking. where they aren't exposed to the shit politics and phoney gods, can simply walk away when things even look like they may become intolerable.
We so greatly pity you with your empty things and insatiable greeds. You have no time for the real values.
But then, you've never been exposed to real values.
The link is very good and educational, but you must realize it is formed under the same conditions, thus is partly blind. The revolution he seeks is a political thing. There is no contentment with what must, inevitably, follow.
 

gokedik

Senior Member
I have lived where these people live. I share their life, the one thing that must not be shown to the people living in the cages of first world politics without the prior conditioning. A short stay in another place with another attitude, unless you're totally owned and ruled by those places, is that people who live where there is no religion and no politics are happy and free, even when you realize they are slaves at the same time.
People in populous crowded places are impotent to survive if things become intolerable, thus they tolerate the intolerable. The people living in the jungles, where food is there for the picking. where they aren't exposed to the shit politics and phoney gods, can simply walk away when things even look like they may become intolerable.
We so greatly pity you with your empty things and insatiable greeds. You have no time for the real values.
But then, you've never been exposed to real values.
The link is very good and educational, but you must realize it is formed under the same conditions, thus is partly blind. The revolution he seeks is a political thing. There is no contentment with what must, inevitably, follow.
I agree. Any revolution you can simply hear coming is doomed. In America revolution would be difficult because of the sickly "American Dream". Consume and you're righteous. Consume and you're free. Consume 'til you die. These people will fight for their junk. Or privilege to covet. Whatever. Don't let me get startede get started. I value your response and view from someone whom isn't mentally bathed in media. Thank you for your valuable time.
 

Morkonan

WF Veterans
In general response to the video:

Despite his protestations, there is a great deal of anger and hatred expressed in that video. It seems as if it's professed by a person who has defined themselves around a particular world-view that requires that "someone else" be to blame for every ill, no matter how far in reality they are removed for it. It seems to identify itself as being an idea that serves the people, while simultaneously professing methods and ideals that actually harm the same people it claims it serves. It doesn't recognizing that "working outside a system" to change it is only the imposition of another system, often a less-ordered one. It's a world view that elevates the spirit of those who follow it by covering all the bases... They are poor yet noble, persecuted yet righteous, culturally significant yet unknown, all the things that people who feel they are without power yearn to hear of themselves. For their circumstances, this particular ideology seeks to cement the blame on an outside force, one that is evil and cares nothing about them. That is the tactic of the tyrant. No tyrant or dictator would tell the people that they have the power, the legitimate Right that they inherited by birth, to change their own lives. Instead, the true tyrant insists that the despicable conditions experienced by their subjected populace is caused by outside evils and internal dissidents.

The speaker blames the influence of the United States in South America for, seemingly, every considered ill. It also targets blame on the "United States" for its role in the suppression of minorities within it, minorities who, through consent, empower the very same government this video blames. It is maintained that the exploitation of the people is a direct result of the greed of a nation, a government that is not truly a separate entity from its people, who cares little for them and, moreover, one that purposefully seeks to oppress them. Yet, never is it acknowledged that bad circumstances do not always have evil causes. It is ignored that a nation which has no need to act for its own sake, in principle, has acted directly on the behalf of the peoples of these regions in an effort to improve their lives without recourse. It points out embargoes and such acts as being indicative of this nation's illegitimate use of power, but neglects to acknowledge the causes for such acts lie in the hands of the leadership an illigitimate governments of those effected nations. It seeks only power for its own and a call to arms to act on the behalf of those that support the ideology, yet refuses the simple fact that a nation of people can act in concert in their own interests. It states that its supporters have the Right to act on their own behalf, yet denies all others the very same Right.

The video has but one message - If you will not give me what I want, I will take it. Yet, its chosen whipping post has not been empowered by the very same people this video claims it holds de facto sovereignty over, neatly side-stepping many of the actions of their own established governments. How then is this nation responsible to act on their behalf when any such action would immediately be decried as illegitimate interference? While we must not hold a blind eye to the wrongful acts of the past, we can not simply call all actions "evil" because we are unsatisfied with some of the results. We can also not be both the beneficiaries of honest trade and its victims, accepting favorable results with one hand while arguing against that very acceptance with the other. It is true that opportunists and corrupt governments have taken advantage of their fellow citizens. It is true that some corporations exploit situations for their own gain. It is true that nations ally and support each others interests. But, it is not true that if one wants substantive and meaningful change that one must break something in order to fix it and one must travel across a hemisphere to violently right a wrong instead of simply walking across the street and confronting one's own corrupt, illegitimate or incompetent government.

There is one principle that never changes - The United States supports an individual's right of self-determination. This is both a philosophical and practical belief. This principle holds that it is just that a human being be allowed to decide for themselves how to live their own life and how to empower their own government by choice, not by threat or coercion. While this doctrine has philosophical roots, it has practical application in that self-determination for a people results in greater long-term stability for the state. All nations seek to support stability, bot internally and within their external cohorts, as a point of general policy - Stability is its own security. That a nation with such principles would actively and directly act against them is not very credible, in the light of a lack of legitimate argument.

I understand the speaker's enthusiasm and desire to act. However, there is no thought behind the call for action, no direction or purpose behind it other than an expression of frustration and rage. The solution professed is the very same problem that this video speaks out against - "If you will not give me what I want, I will take it."

Note: I'm not arguing or seeking debate from members on this matter. I am responding only to the video and what my opinion is regarding its message. Due to the inflammatory nature of the video and the likelihood that "debate" will degenerate into argument, I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to engage in such a thing with fellow members. This is not due to a lack of respect for their opinion. On the contrary, I am bound by own philosophical and political beliefs to respect and to seek to comprehend the opinions and desires of all human beings. However, in acting in good faith with that belief and seeking to support this community of like-minded individuals, I will not engage in debate over this particular point. I think members can judge this particular subject for themselves and I have presented my opinion of the video in question. If, over time, my opinion changes, then I will consider myself blessed and be thankful that I have arrived at a more correct opinion. But, I will not enter into debate, here, in order to explore that possibility. It's just a bit too dangerous a prospect and there are plenty of political forums where this sort of dialogue exchange is strongly encouraged.
 

Plasticweld

Senior Member
In general response to the video:
in order to explore that possibility. It's just a bit too dangerous a prospect and there are plenty of political forums where this sort of dialogue exchange is strongly encouraged.

Morkonan if the maker of the video had spent as much time, thinking and doing research into the topic as you have put into your post.. it would have never been made. Thanks for a well thought out and reasonable response to something that is completely unreasonable I commend your patience and intellect in dealing with something like this...Bob
 

E. Zamora

Senior Member
A lot of bias and naiveté on both sides of this. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
 
Last edited:

gokedik

Senior Member
In general response to the video:

Despite his protestations, there is a great deal of anger and hatred expressed in that video. It seems as if it's professed by a person who has defined themselves around a particular world-view that requires that "someone else" be to blame for every ill, no matter how far in reality they are removed for it. It seems to identify itself as being an idea that serves the people, while simultaneously professing methods and ideals that actually harm the same people it claims it serves. It doesn't recognizing that "working outside a system" to change it is only the imposition of another system, often a less-ordered one. It's a world view that elevates the spirit of those who follow it by covering all the bases... They are poor yet noble, persecuted yet righteous, culturally significant yet unknown, all the things that people who feel they are without power yearn to hear of themselves. For their circumstances, this particular ideology seeks to cement the blame on an outside force, one that is evil and cares nothing about them. That is the tactic of the tyrant. No tyrant or dictator would tell the people that they have the power, the legitimate Right that they inherited by birth, to change their own lives. Instead, the true tyrant insists that the despicable conditions experienced by their subjected populace is caused by outside evils and internal dissidents.

The speaker blames the influence of the United States in South America for, seemingly, every considered ill. It also targets blame on the "United States" for its role in the suppression of minorities within it, minorities who, through consent, empower the very same government this video blames. It is maintained that the exploitation of the people is a direct result of the greed of a nation, a government that is not truly a separate entity from its people, who cares little for them and, moreover, one that purposefully seeks to oppress them. Yet, never is it acknowledged that bad circumstances do not always have evil causes. It is ignored that a nation which has no need to act for its own sake, in principle, has acted directly on the behalf of the peoples of these regions in an effort to improve their lives without recourse. It points out embargoes and such acts as being indicative of this nation's illegitimate use of power, but neglects to acknowledge the causes for such acts lie in the hands of the leadership an illigitimate governments of those effected nations. It seeks only power for its own and a call to arms to act on the behalf of those that support the ideology, yet refuses the simple fact that a nation of people can act in concert in their own interests. It states that its supporters have the Right to act on their own behalf, yet denies all others the very same Right.

The video has but one message - If you will not give me what I want, I will take it. Yet, its chosen whipping post has not been empowered by the very same people this video claims it holds de facto sovereignty over, neatly side-stepping many of the actions of their own established governments. How then is this nation responsible to act on their behalf when any such action would immediately be decried as illegitimate interference? While we must not hold a blind eye to the wrongful acts of the past, we can not simply call all actions "evil" because we are unsatisfied with some of the results. We can also not be both the beneficiaries of honest trade and its victims, accepting favorable results with one hand while arguing against that very acceptance with the other. It is true that opportunists and corrupt governments have taken advantage of their fellow citizens. It is true that some corporations exploit situations for their own gain. It is true that nations ally and support each others interests. But, it is not true that if one wants substantive and meaningful change that one must break something in order to fix it and one must travel across a hemisphere to violently right a wrong instead of simply walking across the street and confronting one's own corrupt, illegitimate or incompetent government.

There is one principle that never changes - The United States supports an individual's right of self-determination. This is both a philosophical and practical belief. This principle holds that it is just that a human being be allowed to decide for themselves how to live their own life and how to empower their own government by choice, not by threat or coercion. While this doctrine has philosophical roots, it has practical application in that self-determination for a people results in greater long-term stability for the state. All nations seek to support stability, bot internally and within their external cohorts, as a point of general policy - Stability is its own security. That a nation with such principles would actively and directly act against them is not very credible, in the light of a lack of legitimate argument.

I understand the speaker's enthusiasm and desire to act. However, there is no thought behind the call for action, no direction or purpose behind it other than an expression of frustration and rage. The solution professed is the very same problem that this video speaks out against - "If you will not give me what I want, I will take it."

Note: I'm not arguing or seeking debate from members on this matter. I am responding only to the video and what my opinion is regarding its message. Due to the inflammatory nature of the video and the likelihood that "debate" will degenerate into argument, I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to engage in such a thing with fellow members. This is not due to a lack of respect for their opinion. On the contrary, I am bound by own philosophical and political beliefs to respect and to seek to comprehend the opinions and desires of all human beings. However, in acting in good faith with that belief and seeking to support this community of like-minded individuals, I will not engage in debate over this particular point. I think members can judge this particular subject for themselves and I have presented my opinion of the video in question. If, over time, my opinion changes, then I will consider myself blessed and be thankful that I have arrived at a more correct opinion. But, I will not enter into debate, here, in order to explore that possibility. It's just a bit too dangerous a prospect and there are plenty of political forums where this sort of dialogue exchange is strongly encouraged.
Did not imagine I'd get such a thorough response. Not being my words, I Thank you for the point of view as he definitely has one...(point taken)...MK
 

Poet of Gore

Senior Member
I agree. Any revolution you can simply hear coming is doomed. In America revolution would be difficult because of the sickly "American Dream". Consume and you're righteous. Consume and you're free. Consume 'til you die. These people will fight for their junk. Or privilege to covet. Whatever. Don't let me get startede get started. I value your response and view from someone whom isn't mentally bathed in media. Thank you for your valuable time.

what? you got to be deaf to be cool in your book? well, i like to listen to things like dogs meow and sharks debate
 
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