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Tips On Presenting Your Story For Online Critique (For new members.) (1 Viewer)

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Leyline

Honoured/Sadly Missed
WF Veterans
Tips On Presenting Your Story For Online Critique

by George Potter





Hi there! So you've finally made the decision to put your writing online for the purpose of critique. Good for you. Critique has something to offer every writer, of every skill level. The great thing about an online group is the sheer number of viewpoints you have access to: people from all over the world, from different backgrounds, at different levels of writing skill and with different tastes in reading material. The opportunity to have your story read and its workings examined by so many different sets of eyes is fantastic, so don't let it go to waste.

These tips are based on my extensive experience with WritingForums in particular. I make no secret of my opinion that it's the best place on the 'net for intelligent critique. I am also a fan of Critters and most of the tips contained here will serve you in good stead there as well.

What makes WF and Critters special is the number of talented and commited regulars who frequent them. These are unpaid laborers, who do what they do out of love for storytelling and to receive critiques of their own work. This leads me to the first and most important rule of getting lots of crits, and it has nothing to do with presentation:

1) Giving Is Better Than Receiving!

This is no exaggeration because not only will critiquing the stories of others gain you critiques in return, the very act of critiquing those stories will make you a better writer. No matter what our skill as writers, we are almost all expert readers. We know when a story works and when it doesn't. With a little study we can pinpoint those places where, in our opinion, the narrative goes wrong. Or the character changes a bit suddenly. Or...you get the picture. Noting and pinpointing these things in other stories can help you when writing and revising your own.

Think of every critique you give as a double edged sword: you are building up a reserve of critique when you finally post your own story, and you are learning about the mechanics of storytelling at the same time. It's often far easier to take a distanced view of another person's story, since our emotions and ego aren't so wrapped up in it.

Note: Not all critiques are created equal, and there are several fine resources, right on WF, that will teach you the most effective and polite ways to go about it. Learn to give good crits and give them often. You won't regret it and your own stories will thank you.

2. .docs are problematic.

If you work in Microsoft Word, the proprietary .doc format contains embedded formatting that will freak out the forum's html based software when copy/pasted. You will also lose all of your indentations before paragraphs, resulting in a solid block of hard to read text rife with weird symbols.

While it's fine to work in .doc format (and many online markets accept it for submissions), before posting to WF you'll need to save as an .rtf or txt file. The first thing to do is make all paragraphs flush on the left edge of the page, and seperate them from each other by a single space.

You'll then need to translate your formatting (italics, bold, etc.) into html code. Thankfully, html code is simple, and the forum software handily allows you a window to highlight and button press it into existence.

This should really only take you a few minutes, unless your formatting is really extensive. If you plan on posting to WF a lot, you may want to start originating your files in .rtf or txt and adding the html code as you go. As I said, it's really very simple and easy to learn.

3. Titles and byline.

Center your title and at least bold it. Titles are important and need to stand out from the rest of the text. I myself also underline and (using html code) enlarge the font somewhat for further seperation. This is a matter of taste, but it really does need to stand out.

I recommend always adding your byline, right below the title. It adds something authoratative to the story, and marks the story as a product of yourself. It's also the one little piece of ego-candy a writer always gets.

If you don't want to use your real name in a public forum, simply use your screen name or come up with a suitable pen name. Either will work.

4. Font & Size

These are much more important than you'd think. The choice of font is the main factor in the visual appearance of your text. The choice of font size has a huge impact on readability.

I prefer serif fonts, finding them smoother and more flowing than the sans serif variety. I feel you should use a somewhat subdued rather than flashy font. Courier New is more or less the industry standard when it comes to submissions, though Times New Roman is making some headway in replacing it. Georgia, Palatino Linotype, MS Serif, Sylfaen and Trebuchet are also good choices. Some people prefer the sans serif fonts, though I find them harder on the eye. Once again, this is mostly a matter of personal taste, but one that should be considered fully.

The font size should be comfortably readable but not overlarge. Between 12 and 16 is a good rule of thumb, but be aware that the font size varies between font types. Some pre-posting experimentation is recommended.

Note that no matter the font type you use in your original, you have to set the type and size when you post it, or WF will display your story in the default font. This is a simple matter of two html-code tags, or just highlighting all the text and choosing a font and size from the dropdown menus in the main posting window.

5. Author's Notes

If your story contains profanity, violence, sexual situations, drug use or other possibly upsetting subject matter (even if it complies with WF policy on such matters), it's best to warn would be readers beforehand. The forum has its own dedicated html code tag to do this. It's the polite thing to do and saves you from making more sensitive readers angry. Please note that quite a few younger members also frequent the forum.

You may also want to request a specific form of critique or ask the critiquer to concentrate on a certain aspect of the story. This is acceptable, but don't be upset if you get a general critique instead of the focused attention you wanted.

6. Make your own effort and remember theirs.

You should clean your story of spelling and grammar errors before posting. You won't catch them all, but you'll be grateful to the sharp eyes that find them for you.

Always thank the people who critique your work, and do the polite thing and respond to their comments. Even a short crit represents an effort on their behalf, and time taken away from their own writing.

7. Thicken That Skin

Most comments are going to be offered in a constructive spirit, though some are going to sting a bit. Don't let this bother you. Usually, that sting is the feeling of an unconcious suspicion being confirmed by another opinion. Take it as the chance to improve that it is.

Also, keep in mind that your honest, constructive comments on the stories of others probably stung a bit themselves. It's all a part of the process, and the pain simply means you are engaged in that process and your story means something to you.

8. The Hard Part -- Making Use Of a Crit

This is also the important part, where you take all those comments and suggestions and nits and pointed out mistakes, sift through them, and revise your original story with them as a guide. Are you going to take every suggestion offered? Probably not. But it won't hurt to try the suggestion and judge it in context. You may decide not to keep it, but you'll have given it a chance.

Sometimes, I've found, just having a problem pointed out is enough to set the wheels turning and cause me to come up with a solution on my own. Pay extra close attention to those things that multiple people point out. Many things will just be a single persons opinion, but if multiple readers are having a problem there might be something fundamentally wrong there.

Making suggested changes also puts us in a more distanced frame of mind, letting us see the story from a new light. This sometimes allows the writer to see flaws that weren't even pointed out, or see entirely new ways to improve the story.

Revising the story and noting it (with additional thanks to those who offered suggestions you actually used) shows that you are paying attention to the crits and appreciating them. This will make it more likely that those same people will crit your future stories.


I hope some of these tips help you, and I'll see you on the forums.

Happy writing and good critting!


-G.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fritzie

Senior Member
Thank you for posting this advice, which is timely for me. I will start by looking at the work here looking for critique.
I might also add to your advice that it is nice giving people the benefit of the doubt, whether it is in what they put up for critique or in critique. We are all trying very hard to do it correctly. Our errors are not intentional. For example, I am not sure whether I will succeed the first time I reformat from Word.
 

Leyline

Honoured/Sadly Missed
WF Veterans
Thank you for posting this advice, which is timely for me. I will start by looking at the work here looking for critique.
I might also add to your advice that it is nice giving people the benefit of the doubt, whether it is in what they put up for critique or in critique. We are all trying very hard to do it correctly. Our errors are not intentional. For example, I am not sure whether I will succeed the first time I reformat from Word.

You are very welcome, fritzie. And remember, the forum has an 'edit' feature. If you mess up the first time, you can try and fix it. The more you do it, the better you'll get. Soon you'll be posting like an old hand! :D
 

ppsage

WF Veterans
I think this ought to get sticky tacked, whatever you call it, to the top somewhere.

It's very important to get a decent presentation on prose submitted for critique. Learn to use the advanced window and PREVIEW before posting. Then, if you find a mistake in the post, use the edit feature and go back and fix it. There's really no excuse for not taking 15 minutes or so to get those few thousand words in decent order.
 
Last edited:

hvysmker

Senior Member
I'd also suggest that even if you see no errors or have no suggestions, that you take a few moments to type in a paragraph on how the story affected you. Maybe it brought up an old memory, gave you an idea for a story of your own?

"Reminds me of an old boyfriend"
"Why didn't I think of that twist? It was unexpected."
"My god! Where did you get that idea?"
"Jeez. Way back in '23, I had the same experience." (Not too many of them.)
"Did you really write this, Charlie, or was it Oscar Rat?"

Anything to show it affected them, how, or how much.

Charlie
 

Joyce

Senior Member
Wow, just read the post. I know I will need to re-read it when it comes time to post my own writing. Unfortunately I have always worked in .doc, both personal and business. Ah well, I might be an "old dog" but I can still learn new tricks. If I run into trouble I can always ask my grandchildren, they seem to know it all. My habit is Times New Roman except when writing for bulletins. Love reading others work but I find it hard to critique. I want to be honest without being too critical. I've always used the Oreo Cookie method in business. Looking forward to some day posting my own work.
 

aj47

(he/him)
WF Veterans
Hi, Joyce. I think the more you critique, the better you get at it. Because the major hurdle in learning to give good critique is articulating just what the issue is.

Never be afraid to give negative feedback...that is actually more important because so many people hesitate to give it. However, if you can't find any positives, you are wasting your time critiquing. It's like knowing when to fix something versus tossing it out. If it's not worth saving, describing how to fix it is a waste of time.

So long as you're critiquing the work, and not the author, you're doing it right. If you're getting personal, then you're moving into a different realm.
 

Joyce

Senior Member
Hi Astroannie; Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I've been reading what others have written along with the critiques. I'm finding that I'm reading as a reader??? (not a grammar person) and how the work interacts with me. What draws me in so to speak and then posting a reply based on that.
 

ickmonster73

Senior Member
I appreciate this advice as well. Especially considering that critique and fresh ideas for writing were my primary reason for joining in the first place. Thank you :)
 

Bevo

Senior Member
Joyce, what a great comment I also do that, additionally I also write as a reader but am learning grammar, slowly..

Great tips here, thank you!
 

PaperbackWriter

Senior Member
This is really great information. It's threads like this one which make me so glad to have found this community and the more I explore the site, the more it feels as though it was made just for me!
 
Oh well! Thank you so much for this useful post! Now I know I'll have to spend a few hours with editing my posts here but I don't mind it at all. I think I'll improve here a lot - both as a writer and a person.
 

M.R Steiner

Senior Member
7. Thicken That Skin

this rule is the most important one in my opinion, Always need to remember that the harshest critic is usually right, don't go mental at them, ask for their advice, It'll make you a better writer than looking for idle praise.

thanks, I found this list pretty useful. :)
 

wulfAlpha

Senior Member
Great advice in this list! I'm glad that this was posted here as it can be really hard to post something when the site you are using has restrictions that you don't know about.
I vote this post should be sticky as well. Or at least placed so newbies find this easily.

I can't stress enough that reading is part of writing. It is intertwined and reading critically is even more important. It can be so hard to critique your own work. the only way to get better is to help others to get better.
 

Raevenlord

Senior Member
Tips On Presenting Your Story For Online Critique

by George Potter




Hi there! So you've finally made the decision to put your writing online for the purpose of critique. Good for you. Critique has something to offer every writer, of every skill level. The great thing about an online group is the sheer number of viewpoints you have access to: people from all over the world, from different backgrounds, at different levels of writing skill and with different tastes in reading material. The opportunity to have your story read and its workings examined by so many different sets of eyes is fantastic, so don't let it go to waste.

These tips are based on my extensive experience with WritingForums in particular. I make no secret of my opinion that it's the best place on the 'net for intelligent critique. I am also a fan of Critters and most of the tips contained here will serve you in good stead there as well.

What makes WF and Critters special is the number of talented and commited regulars who frequent them. These are unpaid laborers, who do what they do out of love for storytelling and to receive critiques of their own work. This leads me to the first and most important rule of getting lots of crits, and it has nothing to do with presentation:

1) Giving Is Better Than Receiving!

This is no exaggeration because not only will critiquing the stories of others gain you critiques in return, the very act of critiquing those stories will make you a better writer. No matter what our skill as writers, we are almost all expert readers. We know when a story works and when it doesn't. With a little study we can pinpoint those places where, in our opinion, the narrative goes wrong. Or the character changes a bit suddenly. Or...you get the picture. Noting and pinpointing these things in other stories can help you when writing and revising your own.

Think of every critique you give as a double edged sword: you are building up a reserve of critique when you finally post your own story, and you are learning about the mechanics of storytelling at the same time. It's often far easier to take a distanced view of another person's story, since our emotions and ego aren't so wrapped up in it.

Note: Not all critiques are created equal, and there are several fine resources, right on WF, that will teach you the most effective and polite ways to go about it. Learn to give good crits and give them often. You won't regret it and your own stories will thank you.

2. .docs are problematic.

If you work in Microsoft Word, the proprietary .doc format contains embedded formatting that will freak out the forum's html based software when copy/pasted. You will also lose all of your indentations before paragraphs, resulting in a solid block of hard to read text rife with weird symbols.

While it's fine to work in .doc format (and many online markets accept it for submissions), before posting to WF you'll need to save as an .rtf or txt file. The first thing to do is make all paragraphs flush on the left edge of the page, and seperate them from each other by a single space.

You'll then need to translate your formatting (italics, bold, etc.) into html code. Thankfully, html code is simple, and the forum software handily allows you a window to highlight and button press it into existence.

This should really only take you a few minutes, unless your formatting is really extensive. If you plan on posting to WF a lot, you may want to start originating your files in .rtf or txt and adding the html code as you go. As I said, it's really very simple and easy to learn.

3. Titles and byline.

Center your title and at least bold it. Titles are important and need to stand out from the rest of the text. I myself also underline and (using html code) enlarge the font somewhat for further seperation. This is a matter of taste, but it really does need to stand out.

I recommend always adding your byline, right below the title. It adds something authoratative to the story, and marks the story as a product of yourself. It's also the one little piece of ego-candy a writer always gets.

If you don't want to use your real name in a public forum, simply use your screen name or come up with a suitable pen name. Either will work.

4. Font & Size

These are much more important than you'd think. The choice of font is the main factor in the visual appearance of your text. The choice of font size has a huge impact on readability.

I prefer serif fonts, finding them smoother and more flowing than the sans serif variety. I feel you should use a somewhat subdued rather than flashy font. Courier New is more or less the industry standard when it comes to submissions, though Times New Roman is making some headway in replacing it. Georgia, Palatino Linotype, MS Serif, Sylfaen and Trebuchet are also good choices. Some people prefer the sans serif fonts, though I find them harder on the eye. Once again, this is mostly a matter of personal taste, but one that should be considered fully.

The font size should be comfortably readable but not overlarge. Between 12 and 16 is a good rule of thumb, but be aware that the font size varies between font types. Some pre-posting experimentation is recommended.

Note that no matter the font type you use in your original, you have to set the type and size when you post it, or WF will display your story in the default font. This is a simple matter of two html-code tags, or just highlighting all the text and choosing a font and size from the dropdown menus in the main posting window.

5. Author's Notes

If your story contains profanity, violence, sexual situations, drug use or other possibly upsetting subject matter (even if it complies with WF policy on such matters), it's best to warn would be readers beforehand. The forum has its own dedicated html code tag to do this. It's the polite thing to do and saves you from making more sensitive readers angry. Please note that quite a few younger members also frequent the forum.

You may also want to request a specific form of critique or ask the critiquer to concentrate on a certain aspect of the story. This is acceptable, but don't be upset if you get a general critique instead of the focused attention you wanted.

6. Make your own effort and remember theirs.

You should clean your story of spelling and grammar errors before posting. You won't catch them all, but you'll be grateful to the sharp eyes that find them for you.

Always thank the people who critique your work, and do the polite thing and respond to their comments. Even a short crit represents an effort on their behalf, and time taken away from their own writing.

7. Thicken That Skin

Most comments are going to be offered in a constructive spirit, though some are going to sting a bit. Don't let this bother you. Usually, that sting is the feeling of an unconcious suspicion being confirmed by another opinion. Take it as the chance to improve that it is.

Also, keep in mind that your honest, constructive comments on the stories of others probably stung a bit themselves. It's all a part of the process, and the pain simply means you are engaged in that process and your story means something to you.

8. The Hard Part -- Making Use Of a Crit

This is also the important part, where you take all those comments and suggestions and nits and pointed out mistakes, sift through them, and revise your original story with them as a guide. Are you going to take every suggestion offered? Probably not. But it won't hurt to try the suggestion and judge it in context. You may decide not to keep it, but you'll have given it a chance.

Sometimes, I've found, just having a problem pointed out is enough to set the wheels turning and cause me to come up with a solution on my own. Pay extra close attention to those things that multiple people point out. Many things will just be a single persons opinion, but if multiple readers are having a problem there might be something fundamentally wrong there.

Making suggested changes also puts us in a more distanced frame of mind, letting us see the story from a new light. This sometimes allows the writer to see flaws that weren't even pointed out, or see entirely new ways to improve the story.

Revising the story and noting it (with additional thanks to those who offered suggestions you actually used) shows that you are paying attention to the crits and appreciating them. This will make it more likely that those same people will crit your future stories.


I hope some of these tips help you, and I'll see you on the forums.

Happy writing and good critting!

-G.
A good post, with good points. Thickening one's skin is definitely the one that's needed most when talking of criticism.

To be an arsonist of souls is the best occupation I can think of... Even if you do end up with burnt fingers.
 

Rick Keeble

Senior Member
This was very enlightening. I have never really critiqued before, not wholeheartedly anyway! Unfortunately, I have already posted twice and am still waiting to be critiqued myself! Now I wish I had read this first. Just playing around now with the fonts you suggested. I only joined this site and know I shall learn a lot! ​Thank you kindly for all you have done.
 

topcol

Senior Member
I fully agree with astroannie's comments re: critiquing. I always feel frustrated if something I've written never gets any negative criticism. If we aren't ever advised by more experienced writers as to where we're going wrong, how are we to turn negatives into positives?
 

bookmasta

WF Veterans
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but editing for grammar and Spag to the best of your ability before asking for a critique. It's more like a personal cutesy than anything else.
 
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