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The Race of the characters in your novel (1 Viewer)

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LeX_Domina

Senior Member
There is this weird misconception that everybody in your novel has to be the same race,or are white.Some people say they don't give their characters a race,whcihc makes no sense because ethnicity and culture determine alot of things about your character.

1)Case in point one of my main characters John Cassidy St.Cross is ethnically English and Norwegian with distant french ancestry,and his Uncle Blaire is married to an african american woman.This is important why?
-he has spent time in america (with his uncle and aunt)therefore knows how to pick up an american accent,which comes in handy when he's going undercover; it comes up in a novel when somebody finds out and he isn't in the system,he nearly gets deported.The Norwegian part comes into the story when he has to see family in Norway and something related to IKOL,and as for the french part,he is a blood relative of Joan of ark,which is again,important,

2)Isabella Venera Bertolli-Itallian , black american and french.This is important because:
-The people on the island her mother comes from,La Capulette (fictional place off the coast of france somewhere near Corsica),has been settled by blacks (during the harlem renassaince and slavery) and haitians,Greeks, Italiian ,Minoan and Sicilian people who were not catholic/christian,but instead worship the old Gods .Her ethnicity reflects her being from La Capulette.She is a nephilim which is normal there

3)Last case being Nikki Sloan is half Irish American and half japanese--his Actual name is Nikki Surono as his mother's name was Sloan and father Surono (such irony)--said name translates easily in both languages,Surono being a near translation of Sloan.His name Nikki is pronounced "nee-kee"the japanese equivalent.This is important because while he goes by Nikki Sloan,Nikki Surono is the name on his birth certificate--this makes it impossible for the big bad to track him because there is no Nikki Sloan that fits his description--hence when they give him truth serum and ask his name...he says it in a japanese accent,which to the non-japanese speakers interrogating him sounds like he said Nikki Sloan with a heavy accent.

4)A neutral named Alexander Geist whom is the only one able to communicate with an AI called Panzer Faustus because he speaks and understands natural german as does his subbordinate Tiara Von keets---

and there are more examples because it is a series,but these are important ones.

So race and characters? What are you guys doin'?

Also noted,I am african american.I do NOT feel as though all my charcters should be the same race as me because that is just unrealistic.How do you guys feel about this?
 

DaBlaRR

Senior Member
I mix a lot of race in my story. There are a few gangs and such and all of them are of different races and it is an important factor. My immediate group of guys (My MC and supporting) are all white, but are different religions (Jewish and Christian), which aren't MAJOR factors, but important enough to mention.

It would be hard for me to let the reader just create the race themselves. That wouldn't work for me.
 

Patrick

WF Veterans
White, except the bad guys, who are all not white.

I actually need a drink after that one.

The characters reflect my upbringing and social environment, so they do come to me as very English and white, for the most part. I don't try to include people of every nationality or race in my writing, but I'd like to have the worldly experience to have characters of other cultures present themselves in my imagination, of course. I've never left my country of birth, so I work with the knowledge I have. Writing fantasy gives me a chance to imagine people of various cultures and ethnicities because I don't have to draw on real-world experience for that (I have enough knowledge from books and enough empathy to do that). But the central characters are white. I don't live in a particularly diverse part of England, so...

I don't think it should matter, honestly. There are lots of writers from various cultures writing what they know. I don't see a problem if their characters are all black, Mexican, African, whatever. I don't like the PC approach which demands diversity from an individual author.
 

LeX_Domina

Senior Member
As a non white person,I unfortunately cannot afford to overlook race--I go to a mostly white college so I am reminded in the most subtle ways everyday that I am black,worse because I am a psychology major,whichI decided I wanted to be a psychologist because as a black person,these white people prodding at us,in our eyes you could never understand certain inherently black scenarios,thus you would never be able to help us.Being a black psychologist would certainly help the cause

As far as my characters who are of various backgrounds ,I do not let a character's race completely define them,though it is a part of them as is with me.I didn't try to do an inclusion story.Their racees are integral as 1)Nikki Sloan can only get away with half the shit that he does because he is half white with light eyes and questionable features,that can't possibly be overlooked.If he was competely asian or resembled an east asian more versus looking obviously part white,there would be alot of problems (story plot-his name is japanese so they think they are looking for an asian man...not quite)

Isabella looking racially ambiguous allows her to pass for whatever race people think she is (she is light skinned,with light eyes and long jet black hair,full lips,wide hips,with a nose you'd only see on white folks) as to her benefit ,she doesn't bother correcting people.Her ability to soeka several languages help in this regard.

Johnny (John Cassidy St.Cross ,british/american dude) is so damn white,he makes wonderbread look look mixed (had to do it).So to their benefit,they send him on certain errands/assignments etc because like it or not,white his white privilege (and male privilege) helps .A lot. A skinny white guy with big blue eyes is far less imposing than a tall muscular ethnic dude and more likely to be taken serious than a woman especially an ethnic woman,worse if somebody suspects she is part black.

an example would be if John was driving a car ,they wouldn't get stopped even if he had a dead body in it.He could wave at a cop and smile while he's got cut up corpses back there. Nikki may be okay,depending on the season because he tans .Isabella could probably get away as long as she doesn't drive too fast and straightens her hair, and not wear cornrow (she's a woman,who may not be black) .Johnny would be better off going into establishments and buying guns and stuff and any other potentially dangerous thing cuz again,he'sjst some skinny white dude.He could walk down the street with a shotgun and nobody would say anything,whereas Nikki might get stopped on acount that from a distance,tan skin and jet black hair=not anglo saxon and might not be white (confirming that its east asian and not latino would probably help...but still an unnecessary risk to bring attention on them).Hell Johnny could (and has) plant a bomb somewhere and people would be none the wiser cuz skinny white dude.
 

Patrick

WF Veterans
I think it's better to focus on human appetites, flaws and moral virtues. I don't spend any time in places where phrases like "white privilege" are common. I would be more interested in your characters if they weren't cliches. I am not sure how to respond to 'skinny white guy with blue eyes,' since I am one among many, and I am (thankfully for the rest of them) very different to the other daywalkers. The fact he#s white, not very big, and has blue eyes, should not be your main focus. Who is he?

If you walked around with a shotgun here, there'd be mass panic, no matter your skin colour.
 

LeX_Domina

Senior Member
in america we have open carry laws in some states..in texas ,he'd be fine,in NYC? Not so much.So yes,he could walk around with a shotgun in certain areas and never be targeted,where as non whites following the same laws ,could be.

as for who he is as a person.he is more than just some skinny white guy but people make assumptions.He has a family,a history,hobies, etc.It's just that the reality of it is that certain people can get awy wit things others don't.No I don't bring up the word white privelage,that is just anvilicious (this user is a troper).And the only reason you can avoid the whole thing is because...gasp! you're white.And male.

privalaged people aren't aware of their privelage ---unless somebody else brings it up and you still might be in denial.

while I am writing I do not think of Johnny as the white dude,in fact it only comes up when I describe what he looks like--tall ,messy blonde hair,blue eyes, with a hint of green and covered in occult tattoos.He use to be in an underground band until he got into an altercation with an extremely petty demon who sabotaged a spell Johnny had cast and people died in the fire.Johnny turned himself into the police,but with no physical evidence,no witnesses and he was acting like an new nut ,he couldn't be prosecuted.Instead he was away so they could purge him of his telekinetic abilities and get him some help (which since this happened in london,would've went down far worse if he was a middle eastern muslim.He would've been labeld a terrorist and you know this). when he was institutionalized,and organization that wanted to create bioweapons snatched him up with intent to use him as an weapon.He retaliated by turning the staff to thralls and breaking himself and the other patients out and washing up ashore in California

now,that along with his history of running with older women and his bondage kink, and love for cats ,and love for wearing hoodies,listening to metal ,his ability to play a piano quite well,eating chocolate cake and the fact he has sticky fingers and ptsd have very little to do with him being white.The point is ,the way people react to him does hence some of his crazy shit he gets away with.
 

PrinzeCharming

New Writers' Mentor
WF Veterans
WeNeedDiverseBooks.org has inspired me to outline my WIP with diversity. There are some great points addressed here.


There is this weird misconception that everybody in your novel has to be the same race,or are white.Some people say they don't give their characters a race,whcihc makes no sense because ethnicity and culture determine alot of things about your character.

1)Case in point one of my main characters John Cassidy St.Cross is ethnically English and Norwegian with distant french ancestry,and his Uncle Blaire is married to an african american woman.This is important why?
-he has spent time in america (with his uncle and aunt)therefore knows how to pick up an american accent,which comes in handy when he's going undercover; it comes up in a novel when somebody finds out and he isn't in the system,he nearly gets deported.

I am sorry, but I don't understand the term, "American accent" used in the context of blending into American society. I completely understand the context of being undercover. I can understand why that would be important. However, it doesn't work well with what you're trying to explain. I live in New England. New York and Massachusetts have their own accents. I do not have an accent living in Connecticut. We are all living in America. Most southern states have accents, but Florida is an exception to the rule. Why? Well, that's where I am confused. We all have unique voices, but not everyone has a unique geographical accent. You cannot differentiate someone in Connecticut from someone in Florida (other than attire and behavior to weather change). So, perhaps you need to clarify which American accent your character wants to pick up.

3)Last case being Nikki Sloan is half Irish American and half japanese--his Actual name is Nikki Surono as his mother's name was Sloan and father Surono (such irony)--said name translates easily in both languages,Surono being a near translation of Sloan.His name Nikki is pronounced "nee-kee"the japanese equivalent.This is important because while he goes by Nikki Sloan,Nikki Surono is the name on his birth certificate--this makes it impossible for the big bad to track him because there is no Nikki Sloan that fits his description--hence when they give him truth serum and ask his name...he says it in a japanese accent,which to the non-japanese speakers interrogating him sounds like he said Nikki Sloan with a heavy accent.
I admire all the extensive work behind building these characters. It's quite impressive.

So race and characters? What are you guys doin'?

Also noted,I am african american.I do NOT feel as though all my charcters should be the same race as me because that is just unrealistic.How do you guys feel about this?

I completely understand. Many readers feel as if a certain race is set as a default role or position in a story, like a sidekick or suspect. In my WIP, I have a white male and female MC with a Muslim best friend tagging along. I also have Asian characters interacting with them. My focus correlates with my background in European, Middle Eastern, and East Asian studies. In terms of being unrealistic, I can agree with you. It's a natural observation that every race and culture should be a part of the story. Movies are diverse, but books seem to struggle with this concept. Do you feel as if there's a fear behind the author? Do you feel as if the author might be in their own comfort zone to segregate race from their writing?

It would be hard for me to let the reader just create the race themselves. That wouldn't work for me.

I really like the last line here. This is how I feel about appearance instead of race. I don't mind setting a race, but I am very hesitant with marketing a book with a clear image of how the character should appear throughout the story. This is why I chose a silhouette as my main cover. I want the reader to visualize their own appearance. I will describe the appearance, but I don't want them sold on a finalized portrait.

The characters reflect my upbringing and social environment, so they do come to me as very English and white, for the most part. I don't try to include people of every nationality or race in my writing, but I'd like to have the worldly experience to have characters of other cultures present themselves in my imagination, of course. I've never left my country of birth, so I work with the knowledge I have.

I don't think it should matter, honestly. There are lots of writers from various cultures writing what they know.

I really like this perspective. It's solely on the purpose of exposure. What you were brought up to see defines your social limitations. What you want to see defines your potential to fill in the gaps. Many white authors will create white characters because they are comfortable with white people. It's just how they were raised. When any author of any color decides to step outside their own color is when they - as you've mentioned - are willing to invest in a global experience. If they cannot experience it on their own, they research the cultures instead. I think it speaks volumes (no pun intended) when a writer explores outside their comfort zone and upbringing.

Diversity in books can make the plot more interesting. Despite being around World War II, what stood out the most was the divide between the two characters closing together. Phillip was racially prejudice from his upbringing. He had to learn to settle his differences to survive being blind with Timothy.


Theodore Taylor's The Cay:


The_Cay_cover.jpg




As a non white person,I unfortunately cannot afford to overlook race--I go to a mostly white college so I am reminded in the most subtle ways everyday that I am black,worse because I am a psychology major,whichI decided I wanted to be a psychologist because as a black person,these white people prodding at us,in our eyes you could never understand certain inherently black scenarios,thus you would never be able to help us.Being a black psychologist would certainly help the cause

I admire your ambition. I was a former Psychology major at UConn before I declared something else. I can understand the tension is rising across all academic institutions. I can also understand where you stand as a Psychology major. It was seldom at UConn to see African-Americans pursue a Psychology course above the basic introduction courses. The courses designed for the majors rather than the general education requirements. These courses fill up for both the interest and majors trying to start their undergraduate careers. I saw more African-American students in my French (English spoken) culture courses simply to take the cultural studies requirement. I know how the French-born professor reacted to her African-American students. It's unfortunately visible on both ends, peers and professors, to understand how you are treated as a student there. I am sorry you feel this way, and I wish the best of luck in your studies. Pursue the degrees you need, become licensed, and make that difference. It's great to have diversity in that field of study, especially for the scenarios you have mentioned.

I think it's better to focus on human appetites, flaws and moral virtues.

I agree with this statement. Allow the character to ponder the rest. Focus on the human characteristics. In Moustafa Bayoumi's How Does It Feel to Be a Problem?: Being Young and Arab in America, there are scenarios where I can admit to say - yes, that was meant to be introduced. That's the concept of the entire book - to hear the voices behind the stereotypes and to understand why Muslims feel as if they are the new black, according to Bayoumi. Allow the reader to digest the diversity and naturally digest how they want to interpret the racial factors. As long as the characters are human, race shouldn't be a main focus here. If there's history involved, the characters should have some strength to move on from whatever happened to them.

Character building in diverse books can be tough for a writer. The way you feel motivated to become someone important in society should be seen as inspiration for others as well. As an African-American psychologist, other African-Americans will look up to you. You can relate to them and give them proper advice. You can evaluate them from your own experiences. In writing, it's that question of, "Who are you to tell me the character is doing something typical people of their color do?" This is why I try to emphasize the importance of why I chose to dive into diversity, and I try my best not to make any other intent from it.

Thanks for this engaging discussion!
 

Book Cook

Senior Member
If you're white and writing in English (with the intentions of publishing), chances are the Western world will be the audience. Therefore if you describe a character as black, you're racist, and if you do that show-don't-tell thingy by evincing certain racial stereotypes inherent in the character, you're racist. So if you're white and want another race in your book, the only safe choice would be Native Americans. There's nary a peep out of them about anything. And maybe Asians.
 

PrinzeCharming

New Writers' Mentor
WF Veterans
If you're white and writing in English (with the intentions of publishing), chances are the Western world will be the audience. Therefore if you describe a character as black, you're racist.

Not necessarily. The help of social media can make a book appear in all market areas. Now, that all depends on the content and if it's worthy to set sail across the sea to other countries. Secondly, it's not a matter of describing a character to be black, but the context of why the character was chosen to be black and how the character plays out throughout the story. If there's a significant reason to why the character is black with good merit of description and role, the author is going to be respected. Harper Lee, author of To Kill a Mockingbird, might have caused some serious conversations but she has passed a legacy as a respected white woman addressing racial complexity.
 
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DaBlaRR

Senior Member
I really like the last line here. This is how I feel about appearance instead of race. I don't mind setting a race, but I am very hesitant with marketing a book with a clear image of how the character should appear throughout the story. This is why I chose a silhouette as my main cover. I want the reader to visualize their own appearance. I will describe the appearance, but I don't want them sold on a finalized portrait.


I agree. I am MOST of the time pretty vague about appearance. I also like to leave a lot of that up to imagination, with the exception of a few that appearance is important... but that's rare.
 

LeX_Domina

Senior Member
I meant to clarify with Johnny New York accent,specifically Brooklyn because that is where his aunt and uncle live and he's been spending breaks there for years.As such Johnny can default to american English but NYC accent only...Sloan is a native New Yorker and Isabella moved there from California.
 

Annoying kid

Senior Member
I want the reader to visualize their own appearance. I will describe the appearance, but I don't want them sold on a finalized portrait.

I feel the complete opposite. Always hated the idea of readers making up half my characters looks (and moves) for me.

My protagonist is white and the king in the story is black. I'm half black myself and I was thinking would I ever want the main character to be portrayed by a different race. I'd be against it to be honest. Just because I want it how I wrote it. Same goes for gender swapping. One can argue various privileges and oppressions and various social justice theory, but I believe in keeping things fresh. I'd rather make a new character and make them a black woman for example. And make that character interesting as well. Rather than having what I've already done, retconned. For example the recent Hermoine portrayal by a black actress. Rowling responded that the character can be black or white. Well...no she's not. Unless she's a chameleon (Or Michael Jackson). I don't care which, but stick with it. And I understand the counter viewpoints. That young girls and boys of colour like the original protagonist best not necessarily the new character that was added afterward. And if there's various actors playing a character anyway, there's already a break in continuity aka the character's a mantle to be passed on. But it just doesn't extend into race in my opinion.
 

Blue

Senior Member
I think race and appearance are quite important, although appearance less so. I won't straight out say their race, unless they do in dialogue, and just hint at hit and portray it in the way they act, speak, what they eat etc. I never wanted my work to be all white, just because I'm not all white either, and I wanted to add a smidge of diversity and play around with cultural differences.

But the problem is doing this without offending or being unintentionally racist.
 

LeX_Domina

Senior Member
In that respect,one thing I don't like is swapping race of pre-existing characters.I kinda want harry potter to stay white,I don't want samus to turn chinese and I don't want the Winter soldier to turn mexican...it's a disservice to the original character and to people of color.

make original people of color...

however certain characters,like the Doctor from Doctor Who could easily turn arabic next week and I would not care.It varies.Legacy characters can change but not the original (I like Rennee Montoya as The Question,and Sam Wilson as Captain america works too).

If I write a character a certain way ,I want them that way.That's why Ursula K. Leguine was pissed about the whitewashing of Earthsea. We make our characters a certain race for a reason
 

Patrick

WF Veterans
in america we have open carry laws in some states..in texas ,he'd be fine,in NYC? Not so much.So yes,he could walk around with a shotgun in certain areas and never be targeted,where as non whites following the same laws ,could be.

as for who he is as a person.he is more than just some skinny white guy but people make assumptions.He has a family,a history,hobies, etc.It's just that the reality of it is that certain people can get awy wit things others don't.No I don't bring up the word white privelage,that is just anvilicious (this user is a troper).And the only reason you can avoid the whole thing is because...gasp! you're white.And male.

privalaged people aren't aware of their privelage ---unless somebody else brings it up and you still might be in denial.

while I am writing I do not think of Johnny as the white dude,in fact it only comes up when I describe what he looks like--tall ,messy blonde hair,blue eyes, with a hint of green and covered in occult tattoos.He use to be in an underground band until he got into an altercation with an extremely petty demon who sabotaged a spell Johnny had cast and people died in the fire.Johnny turned himself into the police,but with no physical evidence,no witnesses and he was acting like an new nut ,he couldn't be prosecuted.Instead he was away so they could purge him of his telekinetic abilities and get him some help (which since this happened in london,would've went down far worse if he was a middle eastern muslim.He would've been labeld a terrorist and you know this). when he was institutionalized,and organization that wanted to create bioweapons snatched him up with intent to use him as an weapon.He retaliated by turning the staff to thralls and breaking himself and the other patients out and washing up ashore in California

now,that along with his history of running with older women and his bondage kink, and love for cats ,and love for wearing hoodies,listening to metal ,his ability to play a piano quite well,eating chocolate cake and the fact he has sticky fingers and ptsd have very little to do with him being white.The point is ,the way people react to him does hence some of his crazy shit he gets away with.

OK, I understand the point, but I doubt the fact I don't hear about white privilege is because I am white and male; firstly, I am not in the echo chamber of social media; secondly, the part of England I grew up in and have lived in all my life isn't all that diverse and the other ethnicities that are here are just regular members of society. The Indians across the road from me, the black lady who works in the co-op, etc, are all involved in the community. If my family were black, do you really think we wouldn't have owned the businesses we've owned? So I guess I want to know just what it is that you think I can do that a black person can't due to a cultural bias? I suppose the real point here is that you're calling me privileged, as though I am not subject to the same rules as everybody else, without knowing anything about me. Isn't that the sort of ignorance that causes racial division in the first place?

Are you not more privileged than a third-world child? And if one acknowledges they're more privileged than someone else, are they supposed to spend all their time apologising?

You can disregard what I have to say because I am not high enough on the victimhood ladder (kind of an ironic privilege) to have anything worthwhile to say, but I am more inclined to sympathy when I am reading about human beings, of whatever ethnicity, who are being wronged in some way, rather than being lectured to about the privilege of my own skin colour by somebody who is, ironically, judging me solely on my skin colour.

Here's a shocker for you, the lead killer of young men in the UK is suicide. Do you not think marital break downs and the way children are treated as belonging de facto to the mother, where men are appreciated only as utility machines, first as a sperm donor and then as child support, is a contributing factor? I'd say the fact the state has done everything it can to undermine the contract of marriage, placing all of the risk and responsibility on young men, is a big example of the fact young white men are really not so privileged as everybody likes to make out. We also don't get 9 months of paid paternity leave to form the close bond with our children that the mother is afforded. The woman gets to choose a healthy balance of family life and working life, while the man is expected to do what he does best, load up that workhorse and slave.

Girls are now out performing boys at school, and this is not seen as an issue by modern feminists. Yet, somehow, it's the men who are privileged. Right. Tell me why there are no protests by women about the male-dominated industries of waste disposal and construction? The problem is, most of the men you're trying to guilt trip are already aware they have a crap deal. I'd say that the working-class man is the least entitled member of western society.
 

Sam

General
Patron
If you're white and writing in English (with the intentions of publishing), chances are the Western world will be the audience. Therefore if you describe a character as black, you're racist, and if you do that show-don't-tell thingy by evincing certain racial stereotypes inherent in the character, you're racist. So if you're white and want another race in your book, the only safe choice would be Native Americans. There's nary a peep out of them about anything. And maybe Asians.

Thanks for warning me. There I was, the whole time, calling my black characters black. As a white man. Apparently, I should have been arrested by the offence police.
 

LeX_Domina

Senior Member
there in is the difference.

I'm an american.

here across pond ,things are much worse. Banks don't want to give us loans.we are forced to live in certain areas (redlining) .There is a quota to how many non whites can work at places,latino worlkers are hired and underpaid.There are zero asian police officers ,despite the fact they are members of our population ,classism is a bitch.When I go into certain resturaunts,they will serve me last/not serve me until I leave because I am black.In stores we are followed by security,less likely to be hired for jobs--last hired first fired rule stilll applies,though there will be at least one token negro.I go to a college where EVERY SINGLE PROFESSOR IS WHITE,and this makes me uncomfortable.In fact,we had a race related incident not too long ago at the college. I have met racist bus drivers racist nuns .Police kill black people and get off,I have been stopped and searched by police for merely being black (stop and frisk isn't allowed anymore).

I always suspected it was worse here than there,which I wante dto include in my novel.Johnny ,one of the protagonists didn't even bat an eye at the race difference in the other characters because where he came from,no one gave a damn--conversly his aunt being a black woman and him going to her place (with her mother and family)whenever he came state side would most definitely make him not give two damns about such a thing.

and for young fathers...it takes two to make a baby.end of story. stop having unprotected sex and you won't be a young father in the first place.not trying to be an asshole but that is it.I don't have unprotected sex even on birth control because I don't want any kids yet...why is that so hard for people to comprehend? as for marriages though,the failure of a marriage is the fault of both parties,lack of communication and the ending of the honeymoon period...in which you realize you despise each other...which if you weren't so quick to hop in bed,you would realize the other person was a pain in the ass (then again,I am demisexual meaning I only have sex with people I feel emotionally connected to...so unlike the rest of the populace,I don't wanna climb on people I meet...unless I haven't met that person yet.Yes,some make me blush make me blush and I immediately avoid said people but no...so this is subjective)

I do agree,it is unfair the way child support does men.It is inhumane,how the hell is he suppose to take care of a kid if they keep taking from him?
conversely...if you took care of the kid ,you probably wouldn't even be taken for child support...still,the system is unfair to men in that regard.And the fact is if you and a black man go for a job ,you are as a white man may be more likely to get it.
 
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LeX_Domina

Senior Member
Thanks for warning me. There I was, the whole time, calling my black characters black. As a white man. Apparently, I should have been arrested by the offence police.

not really.calling us black isn't a problem.I'm a black woman I know this...but if you affiliate my blackness with something else like being dumb or ugly or conversly with me being exotic and beautiful (I'm a very pretty girl,so I understand - [http://www.writingforums.com/thread...e142?p=1985214&highlight=selfie#post1985214]- i jsut don't wear makeup) that is also racial profiling.

truth: trying too hard not to be racist is racist.those don't see color people that is ignorant and disrespectful because one must acknowledge cultural differences and things like the fact that you burn in the sun and I don't.Also don't aks questions about my hair (in the links I am pictured with hair pressed and unpressed)
 

LeX_Domina

Senior Member
OK, I understand the point, but I doubt the fact I don't hear about white privilege is because I am white and male; firstly, I am not in the echo chamber of social media; secondly, the part of England I grew up in and have lived in all my life isn't all that diverse and the other ethnicities that are here are just regular members of society. The Indians across the road from me, the black lady who works in the co-op, etc, are all involved in the community. If my family were black, do you really think we wouldn't have owned the businesses we've owned? So I guess I want to know just what it is that you think I can do that a black person can't due to a cultural bias? I suppose the real point here is that you're calling me privileged, as though I am not subject to the same rules as everybody else, without knowing anything about me. Isn't that the sort of ignorance that causes racial division in the first place?

Are you not more privileged than a third-world child? And if one acknowledges they're more privileged than someone else, are they supposed to spend all their time apologising?

You can disregard what I have to say because I am not high enough on the victimhood ladder (kind of an ironic privilege) to have anything worthwhile to say, but I am more inclined to sympathy when I am reading about human beings, of whatever ethnicity, who are being wronged in some way, rather than being lectured to about the privilege of my own skin colour by somebody who is, ironically, judging me solely on my skin colour.

Here's a shocker for you, the lead killer of young men in the UK is suicide. Do you not think marital break downs and the way children are treated as belonging de facto to the mother, where men are appreciated only as utility machines, first as a sperm donor and then as child support, is a contributing factor? I'd say the fact the state has done everything it can to undermine the contract of marriage, placing all of the risk and responsibility on young men, is a big example of the fact young white men are really not so privileged as everybody likes to make out. We also don't get 9 months of paid paternity leave to form the close bond with our children that the mother is afforded. The woman gets to choose a healthy balance of family life and working life, while the man is expected to do what he does best, load up that workhorse and slave.

Girls are now out performing boys at school, and this is not seen as an issue by modern feminists. Yet, somehow, it's the men who are privileged. Right. Tell me why there are no protests by women about the male-dominated industries of waste disposal and construction? The problem is, most of the men you're trying to guilt trip are already aware they have a crap deal. I'd say that the working-class man is the least entitled member of western society.

not judging you for your race,i'm questioning beliefs.the one person i admire the most in my life is my college professor in psychology and counseling.
she's white.

just wanna clear that up.and whether you notice or not,there are subtle ways to be racist ,subtle things.my neighborhood is half diversed,half divided.if you live in an area where everybody is one race,that is racist (the exception being maybe china town or korea town or little tokyo or little saigon,there are often cultural reasonings to this instead of redlining...white people are incharge of where you live...taht again,is racist)
 
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