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The Bible (1 Viewer)

Saponification

Senior Member
Disagree to some extent.

It often doesn't fit in. Also, assuming Biblical knowledge isn't such a hot idea - not everyone's Christian, for starters... I'm not. :)

If you want to show that you're "cultured" and you live in a Christian country, is it really that special if you quote the Bible? I mean, wouldn't it be more cultured to talk about some ancient religion or something not so big in your country like Islam, Judaism, Hinduish, etc? A lot of religious texts have some amazing stories and amazing things you can use... not just the Bible.

Personally, I focus on Buddhism. I'm not really a Buddhist, but a lot of my stories have messages that are very much in line with what Buddhists believe. I've found the Tibetan Book of the Dead to be a great source of inspiration indeed.
 

Tori

Senior Member
Bringing in the fact that there are those that believe that the Quran is the only actual book written by God (Allah) and you have a whole 'nother debate about the bible.

Honestly, I started reading through some passages awhile back because there were so many debates about religion going on at this political site I go to (mixing religion and politics, think that's a friendly site? lol). I couldn't get past the entire Adam & Eve. Eve was made from a rib of Adams? Things were really messed up back then that's all I can say. If you apply logic to the bible and/or the Quran and all the contreversy and control issues surrounding both, you end up with a contreversial book filled with stories that tell you what you can and can't do that has a bunch of humans dividing and arguing. Odd to me.
 
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skatergirl

I must say there are parts in the Bible that have mistakes and parts that are writen correctly that the reader does not understand correctly. Also in Paul's letters (Romans, Corinthians..etc) he talks about propriety in worship and such, which most is still upheld but not all of it because of the laws and such.
But set all the mistakes aside. I think the main message of the Bible has not changed. That Jesus died for the worlds sins and that people can be saved by putting their faith in him. So all the little mistakes aren't really a big deal as long as the message gets across.
 
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EchoDove

Ah...the book of all books. I am a Christian and I somehow always manage to get myself into a debate of some sort (not that this is) at every forum i join. It is partly a misfortune.
I believe it, i trust it, I love it, and I have reason. I am free, I have hope, and it is the most historically accurate book. It passed all the scientific tests the best.
 

Harlequin

Member
I agree with EchoDove. The Bible can be confusing at times and I admit, there have been times when I was reading that it didn't make sense, but when I studied it deeper, going into the context of the times, I found it to be accurate. People say it was written by men, but those men were simply stenographers. James Dobson was an atheist who read the Bible twice in order to prove to his friends that it was false and he became a Christian and publishes an magazine called "Does God Exist?" that uses science to prove God's existence. Remember, the Bible wasn't written as an exhaustive history of the world but as a guide to the followers of God.
 
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EchoDove

Yes, and now Dr. Dobson is a rather well known Christian author (to Christians at least) and head of an organization, Focus on the Family.
 

Kane

Senior Member
Scarlett said:
I find the Bible tells some interesting stories, but little more.

Have you read the Bible from cover to cover? If not, I wonder how you would know either way. I wonder how many people who argue against the Bible have actually read each word in understanding. shurg.
 
Many people don't read things but know about them because of society or research. People claim to know about Darwin, but few people have read his works - I know I haven't.
 

Kane

Senior Member
Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor said:
Many people don't read things but know about them because of society or research. People claim to know about Darwin, but few people have read his works - I know I haven't.


Yes, you are correct, which is exactly my point. To make a qualified statement about the Bible, however, one should have at least read it. By going off what other people say they are using secondary sources, hearsay. This doesn't make for a convicing qualification when dealing with the Bible, when there are so many different opinions regarding it. It basically boils down to people talking about something of which they have no clue.
 

Trilock

Senior Member
I was raised Seventh Day Adventist (not anymore) and have a pretty good grasp of the Biblical cannon. Yet I still agree with Mark Twain; in a nutshell:

It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
- Letters from the Earth
 

Kane

Senior Member
Trilock said:
I was raised Seventh Day Adventist (not anymore) and have a pretty good grasp of the Biblical cannon. Yet I still agree with Mark Twain; in a nutshell:

It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
- Letters from the Earth

And you've read it, front to back?
 

journyman161

Senior Member
I have, a couple of times. I'd dearly love to see the sources for the statement above that " I believe it, i trust it, I love it, and I have reason. I am free, I have hope, and it is the most historically accurate book. It passed all the scientific tests the best."

eg. there are 2 genealogies for Christ. They involve different people AND a different number of generations between Adam & the Christ.

Even worse? They both trace the genealogy to Joseph!

And this in a society where the family line was martiarchal! (even today, the male line is less significant - if your Jewish mother married a non-Jew, you can meld right back in to both the religion & the race. If it was your father who married outside, you can join the religion but you aren't 'Jewish'

Now why would an accurate book not only get such things wrong? Keep in mind this is comparing it internally, not to some 'suspect' outside info.

Why would it describe the path to the wrong side of the family? It should have been to the mother, both in terms of Jewish tradition & because Joseph & his family tree had nothing to do with Jesus.

Where the hebrews were supposed to have been building their empire in the promised land seems to show little in the way of relics of civilisation. We do however, find the remains of a nomadic shepherd folk who were around at the right time & in the right place.

The bible is quite definitive on the creation of man & woman, but gets the order wrong. Women are the basic state of the human form, men are modified offshoots - genetics says so.

Now the 1st century writers recalling stories from 50 or 100 years before and writing them down, may not have known about genetics & the like, & were thoroughly indoctrinated into the male-dominance view, but surely God knwos this stuff?

From further back in the posts, The tranlations we read are translations of tranlations; the errors multiply, rather than being additive.

The KJV was merely the latest in a long line of changes, but the major alterations were in the days of the Holy Roman Church, around 1000AD, when significant changes were made by the synod.

How could these people, upholders of the True Faith, actually do anything to alter the Word of God? but they did.

My view of the bible is its a book to read as an approximation for what may have happened to a small group of people who lived out in the boondocks of the mighty Egyptian Empire, which even though it was no longer going through its full glory, far exceeded even the dreams of the Hebrews. And they had been around for more than 3000 years before Abraham came on the scene.

Do not rely on it for historical accuracy; it is full of holes, propaganda & stolen myth.
 

LensmanZ313

Senior Member
God didn't have anything to do with the Bible. Anecdotal stories, pagan myths that mirror other creation and flood myths and heroic demigod/savior tales . . . all of which were composed by mere mortals. Dreary mythology. The Qur'an is better-written if you ask me . . . .
 

Kane

Senior Member
LensmanZ313 said:
God didn't have anything to do with the Bible. Anecdotal stories, pagan myths that mirror other creation and flood myths and heroic demigod/savior tales . . . all of which were composed by mere mortals. Dreary mythology. The Qur'an is better-written if you ask me . . . .


That is such an assinine statement, since you were not there to observe the Bible being written. Maybe you wouldn't have so much angst if you realized you didn't know as much as you think you do.
 

LensmanZ313

Senior Member
Tell me, Kane, how do you really know that the Bible was inspired or revealed by God? You don't. All you have is a text that is a few thousand years old. And, that text has been translated time and time again and most of it has been, I bet, literally, lost in translation.

The stories can be traced back to other religious mythologies. Virgin births, demigod saviors . . . those are very common themes in religious mythologies. There is nothing outstanding or special about the Christian mythos.
 

Kane

Senior Member
I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, based on my own personal feelings. I believe God to be real because of things I have experienced in my life that have led me to believe this to be true. See, where we differ is that we both believe something, though on opposite sides. However, whereas I allow for the possibility I am wrong, you state everything like you know without a doubt, which is impossible. I dont doubt that your belief is very real to you, but you err in thinking it infallible. You deal in extremisms, and it doesn't make for a more convincing point of view.
 

LensmanZ313

Senior Member
All I know is from what I've read in other religious myths and history books. I see cycles, patterns . . . a number of archetypes that repeat themselves.

That's what I know.
 

Kane

Senior Member
So what if there are other mythos that seem similar to Judaic concepts? The Hebrews came in contact with a lot of people, and before they were a tribe they started small. It's not like one day there was a group of people called the Hebrews who had a religious text. Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible, as those of us who believe in the Bible as the word of God would say; Moses wrote those books as divinely inspired by God. however, there was still thousands of years prior to that where the Hebrews's religion wasn't written down. It was passed down through word of mouth. Before they were Hebrews as a large group, they would have been a much smaller group. What are the odds that their belief would have been only heard by them? Imagine, if you will, thousands of years ago when they were still very small as a group. What if one of the got lost, wandered into a foreign land, married, etc. His beliefs, rather the beliefs of the people he came from, would be passed on in part. Being a foreign belief to the area, it could have worked its way in on a minute scalre, or whatever. We just can't look back thousands of years ago with any decisiveness as to what we're looking at without documented archeological finds. And even in that case we'd have to allow for the possibility of hoax.

I understand why you don't believe in the Bible, but that doesn't make it any less real to me. All I have to go in today is what I know, what I feel, what I believe. I've just been through too much in my life not to believe in divine providence or in a God who is part of my life. I've seen too many things happen that indicate to me a will greater than my own. I'd share them here, but I would only be mocked for my beliefs, so I don't bother. But I know why I believe what I believe.
 

Harlequin

Member
LensmanZ313 said:
All I know is from what I've read in other religious myths and history books. I see cycles, patterns . . . a number of archetypes that repeat themselves.

That's what I know.

Name one other religion that has a god sacrifice himself for his people then come back. Yes, there are other stories where a god dies and comes back, but not on his own power and he did it for his own glory. Plus, have you ever considered that these archetypes exist because they actually happened?

What I know is that the world is far too complex and works far too well to have been an accident. You throw a handful of seeds in the air and it comes down in chaos. There was something there to cause the change. This world is not chaos. Humans are chaotic because we have free will.

I think a discussion of whether the Bible is true or not should not depend on its literary qualities or if it was written by humans, but if the Trinity is real and created the world. I understand that it is hard to understand how it can be real, but it wasn't written as a history book, although it does have history. The Old Testament was written for Hebrews, although it is still applicable to us.

I agree with Kane that you need to really know something to intelligently discuss it. I don't argue Darwing because I haven't read his writings. You can't know something from society. You have to know it from experience.

I admit, I havn't read the Bible front to back, but it's not a book to be read front to back. It's a book to be studied, but you can't just study the words. You have to study the society. One theory I heard about the geneologies was that they didn't include every single generation, but that's not the point. The point is people need proof. My proof that God exists and Jesus died for me isn't in a book. It's in my life.
 
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