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Senryu (1 Viewer)

Outsider

Senior Member
I was talking about yours in #18. It’s actually 5-8-6. But syllable count is not so important.

Oh, I see what you're saying. That. Well I guess I pronounce senryu differently than you (my way conveniently made 7 syllables in line 2). And in line 3 I wrote the number 7 rather than spelling it out to cheat on the syllable count. I could have written "sev'n" and cheated the old school way too. Thought it way more amusing my way. I guess no one else is laughing, however. Just me.
 

PiP

Staff member
Co-Owner
Read T L's poem
to see if it was senryu
It was. 5 7 5.

Yes, I know but senryu is more than three lines and counting syllables,the cut, placement of punctuation, not using capital letters at the beginning of each line . You only have three lines to make it pop so what qualities make a good senryu? Or can you just splash words on a page like abstract grafffi ... have you tried to write senryu, outsider?
 

Outsider

Senior Member
Yes, I know but senryu is more than three lines and counting syllables,the cut, placement of punctuation, not using capital letters at the beginning of each line . You only have three lines to make it pop so what qualities make a good senryu? Or can you just splash words on a page like abstract grafffi ... have you tried to write senryu, outsider?

If I've written any senryu it was like Moliere's M. Jourdain realizing he had been speaking prose all along. I'm much more the Jackson Pollock of splashing words.
 
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TL Murphy

Met3 Member
Staff member
Chief Mentor
Okay, let’s forget about word count. Think more: short line, long line, short line. Some haiku are written in one line. It’s still haiku. Unfortunately the idea of 5-7-5 has taken over the aesthetic of haiku in the western world and completely distorted the beauty of the form. In my understanding, whether it is haiku or senryu, the goal is to present this balance of opposites, or “antithesis” in very few words with clear cut or division between the two images. “Image” being the important theme here, as opposed to description or explanation. I think senryu is suppose to be more relaxed in that demand but I would say that the best senryu still concentrate the impact of opposing images instead of explanation. As Rob points out, “pop” is important. The conclusion should be enigmatic or at least surprising.
 

PiP

Staff member
Co-Owner
Thanks, Tim. Okay, I think I have grasped the concept. Let's try

bitch in a bottle
empty shallow compliments-
one-way friendship

or

one-way friendship
empty shallow compliments-
bitch in a bottle

the second cut is correct
 

Phil Istine

WF Veterans
Okay, let’s forget about word count. Think more: short line, long line, short line. Some haiku are written in one line. It’s still haiku. Unfortunately the idea of 5-7-5 has taken over the aesthetic of haiku in the western world and completely distorted the beauty of the form. In my understanding, whether it is haiku or senryu, the goal is to present this balance of opposites, or “antithesis” in very few words with clear cut or division between the two images. “Image” being the important theme here, as opposed to description or explanation. I think senryu is suppose to be more relaxed in that demand but I would say that the best senryu still concentrate the impact of opposing images instead of explanation. As Rob points out, “pop” is important. The conclusion should be enigmatic or at least surprising.

I've found that if I adhere to a 5-7-5 syllable count, it can sometimes obstruct using optimal words.
 
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TL Murphy

Met3 Member
Staff member
Chief Mentor
Thanks, Tim. Okay, I think I have grasped the concept. Let's try

bitch in a bottle
empty shallow compliments-
one-way friendship

or

one-way friendship
empty shallow compliments-
bitch in a bottle

the second cut is correct

In both versions, 2 of the three lines are explanations and one line is an image. Although this is not strictly against the rules in sentryu, image is stronger than explanation.
 
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PiP

Staff member
Co-Owner
Thanks for your patience tim. Now these are all images?

Bitch in a bottle image
recycling bin overflows: image
wine-stained compliments image(?) concrete of abstract compliment

rework

wine-stained compliments image
leave a bad taste in the mouth; explanation
so this line must be an image?

 

Pulse

Staff member
Senior Mentor
so this could be a haiku:

the elevator*
rose is a rose is a rose**
sun shine entices

*Tim Murphy
** Gertrude Stein


I'm trying to turn it into a senryu. My reasoning here is that the lines in poetry provide punctuation through their own spacing; but I'm not sure if metaphors are allowed or not, still less proverbial maxims.

the top floor debunked
the passengers on the lift
while glass ceiling watched

I'm still seeking a Japanese poet because there is a danger of undermining Japanese culture with glib little poems.
 

TL Murphy

Met3 Member
Staff member
Chief Mentor
I like your top one. Clear imagery, and the cut is obvious even without punctuation. The first part is clearly connected across 2 lines because of the continuity. I love the double meaning with "rose".

I don't think there is much danger of us undermining Japanese culture by trying to write Japanese poetry anymore than Japanese undermine American culture by playing baseball or recording rap music.
 

TL Murphy

Met3 Member
Staff member
Chief Mentor
Katrina, this site is very helpful. I've copied a few of my favorites. Reading these will be far more instructive than listening to me. Obviously, every line is not image based but the images make the poems.


[FONT=&Verdana]dead termites
the exterminator
lights a cigarette

- Andy Burkhart




survivor guilt
the carrot nose
outlasts the snowman

- Cara Holman




rush hour
the hearse driver
lets me in

[/FONT]
- Ernest Wit



[FONT=&Verdana]as the train rolls
her mascara
runs

- Liam Wilkinson




retirement seminar
my free pen
stops working

- Meik Blöttenberger




the waitress
points the way to the toilet
with a coffeepot

- Nick Hoffman

[/FONT]



[FONT=&Verdana]a frog, a heron
and a cicada
walk into a bar . .

- Raymond A. French

.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&Verdana]

[/FONT]

[FONT=&Verdana]






[/FONT]
 

Pulse

Staff member
Senior Mentor
Yes. I like the survivor guilt, the mascara and the coffeepot; random really.
 

petergrimes

Senior Member
I thought Tim's original was an absurdist joke. These are more conventional. Still quite funny though. I like them, I read somewhere they were originally like Japanese working peoples jokes. Its interesting that its a type of poetry.

Edit - with a joke about a pen, can he really be called Blottenberger?
 

petergrimes

Senior Member
"Help me please,
I can't get out, I'm trapped."
Inverted commas.

the quick
brown fox, jumps through
the fourth wall

alternative

the quick
brown fox, jumped over
the cut

sorry
I don't count syllables
unless to sleep

poetry
that doesn't take itself seriously
poets will
 
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