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Robert Jordan (what do you think?) (2 Viewers)

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
Robert Jordan is one of my absolute favorite authors.

He wrote the The Wheel Of Time Series (10 books in all)

Has anyone read those? If so, what is your opinion about the author and of The Wheel Of Time Series.
 

Pawn

Patron
Absolutely terrible. Irritating characters, unbearably slow moving plot, unconvincing world and above all, abominably written. Gives fantasy a bad name.

You claim his writing is more 'complex' than Tolkien's. Possibly you lost your brain in an unfortunate accident? A monkey could write better prose.
 

Pawn

Patron
Agreed. I've read six or so of Jordan's books, almost by accident. At one point I skipped a book by mistake - I didn't notice for weeks. I've just started reading George R.R. Martin's series, 'A Song of Ice and Fire'. I have high hopes.

Shadeslayer - don't be too discouraged. Jordan does have fans around here (this isn't the first time his name's been mentioned). Unfortunately.
 

Creative_Insanity

Senior Member
I haven't read any, but I've heard that only the first couple books were any good, and the rest were . . . . not. I decided not to read any because it looks a bit cliche and derivative.
 

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
Well, I suppose we all have our own opinion about the Robert Jordan. Don't worry, I'm not discouraged and I still do love his books very much. The Reason that I feel he is better than Tolkien is that he gives his character more depth, he doesn't just type up discription and everything. He focuses on the characters, which to me, he does a very good job. But yeah, the only that annoys me about the books is that the woman seem so...I don't know...concieted. They seem to think there better than everyone else. Don't get me wrong, I'm a girl, but its irritating.
 

Creative_Insanity

Senior Member
*shrugs* It's a matter of personal opinion. But I have a few author recommendations:

Robin Hobb (start with Assassin's Apprentice)
George RR Martin (start with A Game of Thrones)
Lynn Flewelling (start with Luck in the Shadows)

I like these fantasy authors, and from what I've heard, people who like Jordan also like them. Also, these three authors have gotten a much better response from critics than Jordan has, so I think they're a better bet.

You should give them a try if you haven't already.
 

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
I've given them a try already, and absolutely love George RR Martins work! His books are fantastic! To me, he isn't as good Jordan, but he is a fabulous author. But what do you think of Christopher Paolini? That kid author?
 

Pawn

Patron
At least Tolkien's aren't plain irritating. Rand is up there with Harry Potter as one of the most retarded protagonists ever written.
 

Talia_Brie

Senior Member
The only real problem I have with Joran is that the plot is so slow moving. I've seen people here say the world is unbelievable. I've just got to shrug my shoulders when I see that, because I just think it's not true.

Jordan spends an awful amount of time making the world believable, with different cultures and beliefs. It is this aspect of this writing, the realism, that is making the story so long. If the world were unbelievable the natiosn would be lining up behind the Dragon as quick as a wink. That they know he's the Dragon, and know what he has to do, and are still rebelling against him for religious and cultural (read racial) reasons, is very believable.

I saw someone question the sword forms. Again, I think you've oversimplified the art. You train the forms constantly so that in a fight they come instincually, but that doesn't mean you don't recognise thme when they do. Anyone who has studied any form of martial art would tell you the same thing.

The story is slow, and impossibly large, but it is complex in a way only a master storyteller could control, and I think the complexity shows Jordan's skill.

But I do understand the complaints. There's no pace, and a lot of the characters are annoying.
 

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
Sure, I'll agree with some of the complaints. But there this one complaint that really bugs me, and its coming from Pawn. You say Jordan can't write for shit, right? Well, saying that, I think you may be overeacting or just exaggerating because you hate the story so much. If you really think he's a bad author, then I don't think he'd be #1 New Your Times Bestselling author. Reasons why he is better than Tolkien: (To me, personally)

1) When Jordan writes, he builds up the plots, but he keeps them in focus with all the discription around him. He does it so well, that we all sometimes forget we're in our rooms. Sure Tolkien does that, but if you have read The Wheel Of Time, you would notice that Jordan does it even better. The scenery he creates seem real, he adds more title and flavor to it. Don't get me wrong, Lord Of The Rings is an excellent collection to read. I love the trillogy.

2) The characters may be irritating at some points, but at least he takes the time to write out the depth of the character. He tells us who they are, and makes us feel as if they are real people. He not only gives them names and reasons to talk, but he writes their personality in a very complex situation, of where, if you read the books carefully, you would be able to understand each and everyone of them. But Tolkien, he just has them talk and they don't seem to fit well with the characters in the movies. All they do is speak with one another and enjoy a conversation, sure, it is a serious book, but he needs more depth and emotion in the character. Sometimes it even seem fake at a few parts in the story, because of the lack of emotion. I personally feel that the most weakest part in Tolkien's writing ability is to have us reconize the character.

P.S. Don't hate me for what i've done, I really am allow my own point of view and cussing me out isn't going you or me in this. but I really do adore Tolkien's books.
 

Creative_Insanity

Senior Member
Shadeslayer said:
Sure, I'll agree with some of the complaints. But there this one complaint that really bugs me, and its coming from Pawn. You say Jordan can't write for shit, right? Well, saying that, I think you may be overeacting or just exaggerating because you hate the story so much. If you really think he's a bad author, then I don't think he'd be #1 New Your Times Bestselling author.

Okay, I've never read Jordan, so I really shouldn't comment, but I just had to get this in: just because it sold the most doesn't make the best. It's probably decent, but I repeat: that does not make it the best. All it means was that it was sellable. Think of any type of entertainment. Movies. Music. Whatever. Just because Resident Evil was #1 in the box office or Britney Spears sold a billion records doesn't mean that they're the best in the business. Okay, so maybe it's being disrespectful to compare Jordan to Britney Spears, but you get my drift.
 

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
Nice combat, ouch! And yeah, I already know that the characters could be annoying (you don't have to be...err...a litter over that) But the point I'm trying to make is that at least takes the time to acually put depth in the character unlike Tolkien. And yeah, for your information, I did read George RR Martin, so you don't gotta get all over my damn ass back about that. So what if I like Jordan better, sue me you gotta problem with that! I'm entitled with my own opinion and the reason I like Jordan is because his spreads out his characters and has lots of them. Its not just told from Rand's point of view, and even if Rand didn't want to kill a woman, oh well. He may a sissy towards woman, but oh well. I still enjoy the books, and yeah, I like them.
And I don't know why other people are insisting that I hate other authors when I don't. What is the fuc is up with that? In fact, if you should know, I acually enjoy Janny Wurts and Raymond E. Fiest, along with Drew Karpyshyn.

Later
 

Creative_Insanity

Senior Member
Hehehe . . . yeah, I totally respect your opinion, and I'm not interested in starting a huge argument, but I thought it was ironic you said you liked Raymond E. Feist because I just wrote a negative review about Talon of the Silver Hawk: http://www.ritro.com/sections/books/story.bv?storyid=2829

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get on your bad side, but I just thought this was funny.

But anyways . . . as for different points of view, doesn't George RR Martin do this too? In fact, every chapter is titled with the name of the character whose view it's from.

Whatever. Everyone has different opinions. There are lots of Jordan fans, so it's not like you're the only one.
 

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
Although I do luv Raymond E. Fiest, I would have agree with you about the romances. There stupid, and sometimes give an urge to piss me off. If you've read the Riftwar Saga with Pug and Carline. You would get with what I mean. But overally, I really do enjoy his books. One of my favorite is:

The King Of Foxes
 

Creative_Insanity

Senior Member
The only book I've read was Talon of the Silver Hawk. I wasn't overly impressed.

Anyways, hmm, someone mentioned that Rand was the most annoying protagonist of all time. Again, I've never read the books, so I wouldn't know about that, but speaking of annoying protagonists, has anyone read Elizabeth Haydon's Symphony of Ages trilogy? Rhapsody, Ashe, and Jo are about the most annoying main characters ever invented!

But I won't bash Elizabeth Haydon too badly, because although I disliked her characters, I still enjoyed reading her books because she has such a way with words. Her writing style is very vivid and polished. She is a very talented writer, and I think that with time and experience, she will learn how to create better characters.
 

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
My friend mentioned that the book in all was horrible, along with the characters. But I won't say anything because I've never read it, but I would give it a chance as soon as I'm done with a book I'm readng right now:

Fugitive Prince by Janny Wurts

Anyone else read it?
 

A_MacLaren

Senior Member
I've never read a book by Robert Jordan. All I know is that I hate him. I hate him less than I hate David Eddings, but frankly, I'd club David Eddings into senility with The Redemption of Althalus is I could.
I might offer a humbleo opinion as to why so many of you people don't like Tolkien; you're all idiots.
That may sound harsh, I know, but come on. Those are great books. A damned sight better than nearly any other fantasy I can think of. Perhaps the reason you think he gets bogged down in description is because you're not thinking deeply enough. I'm not criticising you; a lot of modern literature is training readers to only see what's spelled out for them. Tolkien doesn't do it. The Lord of the Rings has levels. Sometimes you have to think about the events and the characters and how you react to them to get meaning. Tolkien wasn't writing straight romantic fantasy, whatever some people might say. He was writing modern literature in an old-time way. There's a sense of irony, or melancholy in The Lord of the Rings, which people don't see because they're too busy bagging the book. For instance, when Théoden dies, people see the 'glorious death' thing and write off the book as pro-war crap.
Think about Tolkien's background. He lost his three best friends in the first world war. His son was in the second. Does he sound like he'd advocate war?
Théoden's death is so sad because he died in battle, 'gloriously', and he was happy about it. The irritation some readers feel at this point makes me feel sad, because he died thinking it was good. It's so clearly anti-war that it's stupid to see people who take it as a shallow, romantic fantasy. There are levels that he's not telling you about. It's supposed to be about intelligent reading.
As for Elizabeth Haydon, don't even get me started. The most appaling book I ever read was Rhapsody. The woman is a talentless hack.
Generic writers lik Robert Jordan, Raymond Feist and David Eddings are giving the truly good, original writers, like Steven Erikson and Cecilia Dart-Thornton, a bad name.
 

Shadeslayer

Senior Member
Err...A_MacLaren...I don't think I've ever mentioned that I didn't like Tolkien. Why does everyone assume I hate him? Yeesh, besides, Tolkien is a good writer, but he lacks depth and emotion in character. Sure, he's writing in a olden way, but I've read books from his style like a few King Arthur series and I've never seen them lack those special needed qualities to make a book interestng. But really, I do like Lord of the Rings.
 

A_MacLaren

Senior Member
Oh no! Challenging writing! What shall we do?!
Sorry. I get angry.
I wasn't accusing you, but I've noticed a general 'Tolkien bites' feeling on this site. I don't think he lacks depth, or emotion, in his characters. People just can't see past the style.
 
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