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Philosophy stuff. (1 Viewer)

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
I've long been fascinated by Zhuangzi's writing, his Butterfly Paradox in particular.

"Once upon a time, I dreamed I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware of all else. Soon I woke, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man."

Anyone else love obscure philosophy?
 

bdcharles

Wɾ¡ʇ¡∩9
Staff member
Media Manager
I must be honest, I go from loving the elegant phrasings of it all and being tossed in the subtle waves of its wisdom, to thinking it's all just a load of big talk. Sometimes I think the age of philosophy has gone and berate myself as a terrible cynic (in the modern sense) for thinking so...
 

Matchu

Senior Member
It took me all of my intellectual powers to grasp Popper, or Kant, for a single moment before losing it all again. Be they right wing or left wing, every time I managed one paragraph I thought they were incredible (modern sense).

I tend to fetishise Wittgenstein because he's supposedly the cleverest man ever born, and beat his pupils as a teacher. That's good also.
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
I must be honest, I go from loving the elegant phrasings of it all and being tossed in the subtle waves of its wisdom, to thinking it's all just a load of big talk. Sometimes I think the age of philosophy has gone and berate myself as a terrible cynic (in the modern sense) for thinking so...

I was a throw-away kid that grew up on the streets living around criminals and outlaw bikers. I knew that world, but didn't want to live in it. Fortunately, California offers free tuition at their junior colleges, and I took advantage of that. I earned an Associates Degree in Design Drafting, and started working in Silicon Valley - that was a good degree to have back in the 70's. Anyway, once my career was going well, I went back to JC and took night classes that interested me. A lot of philosophy classes, along with art and art history.

I've always liked off-kilter stuff, so philosophy suited me well.
 

Taylor

Staff member
Global Moderator
I wanted to jump into this thread and say yes...yes! Because I admire people who study and embrace philosophy, but truthfully I have not invested enough time to contribute much to this discussion.

I did get familiar with Taoism when I developed some organizational behavior training. It started with the famous quote:

“Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime”

- Lao Tzu

I could probably benefit by re-visiting the four principles especially "Letting go."

I’d imagine your martial arts training must reinforce your college studies in philosophy.

It’s on my bucket list to do more philosophical reading. What would you start with?
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
I wanted to jump into this thread and say yes...yes! Because I admire people who study and embrace philosophy, but truthfully I have not invested enough time to contribute much to this discussion.

I did get familiar with Taoism when I developed some organizational behavior training. It started with the famous quote:

I could probably benefit by re-visiting the four principles especially "Letting go."

I’d imagine your martial arts training must reinforce your college studies in philosophy.

It’s on my bucket list to do more philosophical reading. What would you start with?

For Asian philosophy, the best start is Lao Tsu's book, the Tao Te Ching - it's a fast read, but it may take a lifetime to grasp the concepts. Zhuangzi (aka Chuang Tzu)'s Inner Chapters is a little tougher to get through, but it includes the Butterfly Paradox.

For European, you can't go wrong with Plato's Republic. Then there's Nietzsche if you're brave... remember, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

In a religion's class we read Bertrand Russel's 'Why I am not a Christian' - that was a lively class.

Ok - but seriously, for a good all around book on philosophy try 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' by Robert Persig.
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
I wanted to jump into this thread and say yes...yes! Because I admire people who study and embrace philosophy, but truthfully I have not invested enough time to contribute much to this discussion.

I could probably benefit by re-visiting the four principles especially "Letting go."

I’d imagine your martial arts training must reinforce your college studies in philosophy.

It’s on my bucket list to do more philosophical reading. What would you start with?

Consider this: Chapter 11 from the Tao Te Ching (and possibly apply it to writing):

Thirty spokes share the wheel's hub;
It is the center hole that make it useful.
Shape clay into a vessel;
It is the space within that makes it useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room;
It is the holes which make it useful.
Therefore profit comes from what is there;
Usefulness from what is not there.

While studying art history I dated a girl that was a classically trained pianist. One of the things she taught me about music was to not focus on the notes, but the spaces between them; she said that was where the rhythm and beauty lay.
 

Taylor

Staff member
Global Moderator
For Asian philosophy, the best start is Lao Tsu's book, the Tao Te Ching - it's a fast read, but it may take a lifetime to grasp the concepts. Zhuangzi (aka Chuang Tzu)'s Inner Chapters is a little tougher to get through, but it includes the Butterfly Paradox.

For European, you can't go wrong with Plato's Republic. Then there's Nietzsche if you're brave... remember, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

In a religion's class we read Bertrand Russel's 'Why I am not a Christian' - that was a lively class.

Ok - but seriously, for a good all around book on philosophy try 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' by Robert Persig.

I did read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance when I was in my twenties. I loved it! So there is hope for me yet...
 

Taylor

Staff member
Global Moderator
Consider this: Chapter 11 from the Tao Te Ching (and possibly apply it to writing):

Thirty spokes share the wheel's hub;
It is the center hole that make it useful.
Shape clay into a vessel;
It is the space within that makes it useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room;
It is the holes which make it useful.
Therefore profit comes from what is there;
Usefulness from what is not there.

While studying art history I dated a girl that was a classically trained pianist. One of the things she taught me about music was to not focus on the notes, but the spaces between them; she said that was where the rhythm and beauty lay.

I can add one more to that. When I was a designer, and my employer would push me to chachki things up, because she thought they would sell better. She would say, "Give them a reason to buy." She was a different generation. I would respond, "What's not there, is as important as what's there. Why give them a reason not to buy?" I believe in design, it is the spaces around things that are just as important as the things.
 

Irwin

Senior Member
I like stoicism since I have an anxiety problem, and it's my goal to be stoic in stressful situations. Actually, it's my dream. I'll have more opportunities to practice once I get my second covid-19 shot.
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
I like stoicism since I have an anxiety problem, and it's my goal to be stoic in stressful situations. Actually, it's my dream. I'll have more opportunities to practice once I get my second covid-19 shot.

A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials.
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca
 

Taylor

Staff member
Global Moderator
I like stoicism since I have an anxiety problem, and it's my goal to be stoic in stressful situations. Actually, it's my dream. I'll have more opportunities to practice once I get my second covid-19 shot.

I have spent my entire life trying to master stoicism. It seems so easy...and then it's not.


"The Stoics elaborated a detailed taxonomy of virtue, dividing virtue into four main types: wisdom, justice, courage, and moderation.

Wisdom is subdivided into good sense, good calculation, quick-wittedness, discretion, and resourcefulness.

Justice is subdivided into piety, honesty, equity, and fair dealing.

Courage is subdivided into endurance, confidence, high-mindedness, cheerfulness, and industriousness.

Moderation is subdivided into good discipline, seemliness, modesty, and self-control. "

https://iep.utm.edu/stoiceth/#:~:text=The%20Stoics%20elaborated%20a%20detailed,%20justice%2C%20courage%2C%20and%20moderation.



 
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NobodyParticular

Senior Member
"Ill have more opportunity to practice [stoicism] AFTER MY SECOND COVID-19 SHOT."

Come on man, does anyone not see this is a bot?

Or, one paid to push a mission??

If you thought u were so philosophical, you would have considered what this shot is doing: using humans as guinea pigs. But you wanna come in here and push it, either to justify yourself, or because you've been paid, but both at the sake of other human life.

I will speak up if no one else will.
 

NobodyParticular

Senior Member
Ok, I need to get this out.

Animal trials for this COVID-19 vaccine were STOPPED, after killing the animals it was supposed to help.

So, knowing this, Trump PUSHES THE FDA into a WARP SPEED, thoroughly bypassing ALL federal regulations.

Now we have either bots, or paid liars, to come into these groups and market this vaccine, even though they are blatantly using humans as guinea pigs.

Listen, I am trained in helping people process fear and trauma. I am a Counselor. I have dug into the depths of trauma, and how people respond to it. I am trying to be as up front and honest about what is happening here. The Media, in every aspect, has been manipulated, in order to force your decision. Once enough momentum is in effect, they will force all into a digital monetary system, to seal up absolute control. Wireless technology, nano-medicine, and digital money....

All who are condoning this vaccine are pushing on others, therefore being forceful, in the most subtle way.

There was a subtle snake in the Garden of Eden as well, who lying-ly said, "you will not surely die".
 

ppsage

WF Veterans
What I recall is that the (very few) animals which you reference here were an early attempt to create a transgenic mouse model (genetically original lab rats don't get sick from the human SarsCoV2 virus) which failed due to oversensitivity.

Ok, I need to get this out.

Animal trials for this COVID-19 vaccine were STOPPED, after killing the animals it was supposed to help.

So, knowing this, Trump PUSHES THE FDA into a WARP SPEED, thoroughly bypassing ALL federal regulations.

Now we have either bots, or paid liars, to come into these groups and market this vaccine, even though they are blatantly using humans as guinea pigs.

Listen, I am trained in helping people process fear and trauma. I am a Counselor. I have dug into the depths of trauma, and how people respond to it. I am trying to be as up front and honest about what is happening here. The Media, in every aspect, has been manipulated, in order to force your decision. Once enough momentum is in effect, they will force all into a digital monetary system, to seal up absolute control. Wireless technology, nano-medicine, and digital money....

All who are condoning this vaccine are pushing on others, therefore being forceful, in the most subtle way.

There was a subtle snake in the Garden of Eden as well, who lying-ly said, "you will not surely die".
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
"Ill have more opportunity to practice [stoicism] AFTER MY SECOND COVID-19 SHOT."

Come on man, does anyone not see this is a bot?

Or, one paid to push a mission??

If you thought u were so philosophical, you would have considered what this shot is doing: using humans as guinea pigs. But you wanna come in here and push it, either to justify yourself, or because you've been paid, but both at the sake of other human life.

I will speak up if no one else will.

My wife got her first Covid shot today. I'm a bit concerned... she's crawling around the house on all fours and speaking in tongues.

So, I'm not planning to get one.
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
Plato's Republic actually tackles an interesting issue:
If the Gods are just, why do the wretched among us prosper while the good suffer?

Anyone else read that book? Or do I win the crown of head geek?
 
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