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My wife wants me to get the shot. (1 Viewer)

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indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
Background: I rarely see a doctor, and when I do I frequently refuse to follow their advice and tell them so. Predictably, I've not submitted to the paranoia and gotten a covid shot because I strongly object to the government mandating what I put into my body.

Before covid I toured the country on my motorcycle every summer, but the stupid lock-down kept me at home last year. This coming summer my wife wants us both to visit my daughter's family out in California, and she's concerned about this covid passport that may be coming.

Advice? Shot or no shot?
 

bazz cargo

Retired Supervisor
The one thing that stands out from your question, is the appalling state of education.

Vaccines work. They finished off Small Pox and keep the annual Flu death toll down to a reasonable number. They are not perfect, then what is?

It is your choice about taking it. Although it isn't as clear cut as the anti-vax propaganda would have you believe. You will have to consider that it isn't just your life at risk, but other family members, friends and people you come into contact with. The slower and lower the numbers, the longer we will have to wear masks. The longer we will have to avoid crowds.

Knowledge is power:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html




Background: I rarely see a doctor, and when I do I frequently refuse to follow their advice and tell them so. Predictably, I've not submitted to the paranoia and gotten a covid shot because I strongly object to the government mandating what I put into my body.

Before covid I toured the country on my motorcycle every summer, but the stupid lock-down kept me at home last year. This coming summer my wife wants us both to visit my daughter's family out in California, and she's concerned about this covid passport that may be coming.

Advice? Shot or no shot?
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
The one thing that stands out from your question, is the appalling state of education.

Vaccines work. They finished off Small Pox and keep the annual Flu death toll down to a reasonable number. They are not perfect, then what is?

It is your choice about taking it. Although it isn't as clear cut as the anti-vax propaganda would have you believe. You will have to consider that it isn't just your life at risk, but other family members, friends and people you come into contact with. The slower and lower the numbers, the longer we will have to wear masks. The longer we will have to avoid crowds.

Knowledge is power:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html

I want to be certain that this discussion does NOT turn political. So as my grandfather used to say, we'll have none of that here.

Thank you for the info, most of which I've read before. Conspiracy stories are off the chart ridiculous, that's not my issue. I'm not worried at all about catching covid, I'd just rather not take the vaccine. If those around me have taken it, how could I infect them? And, if those around me chose not to take it, why would they complain about catching it?
 

vranger

Staff member
Supervisor
Background: I rarely see a doctor, and when I do I frequently refuse to follow their advice and tell them so. Predictably, I've not submitted to the paranoia and gotten a covid shot because I strongly object to the government mandating what I put into my body.

Before covid I toured the country on my motorcycle every summer, but the stupid lock-down kept me at home last year. This coming summer my wife wants us both to visit my daughter's family out in California, and she's concerned about this covid passport that may be coming.

Advice? Shot or no shot?

I promise you don't know another lay person who knows as much about this disease as I do. I spent weeks studying medical reports and treatment studies last year. You don't want to get it. Outside of the risk of death, which is MANY times higher than the flu (despite the chorus of the "it's just the flu" people who get their medical advice from Facebook memes), there is a significant risk of organ damage (lung, heart, and others) even in so-called mild cases. Lucky enough to avoid death or organ damage? How about winding up like a lady I met a couple of weeks ago. She and her husband suffered greatly with the virus at Thanksgiving, recovered, but STILL have not regained their senses of taste or smell--five months later. She told me every meal feels like eating cotton balls.

I prefer to sidestep ALL of that.

This vaccine was developed quickly, but had one of the most intense trials in the history of vaccines. Neither the Moderna nor the Pfizer vaccines provide 100% protection, but after the second shot, you're at 95%. That's better than 0%. I chose the Moderna vaccine for us because of the 80% protection two weeks after the first shots, as opposed to 50% for Pfizer, although some sources rate the Pfizer vaccine about equal to Moderna after the first shot. The Moderna vaccine has less stringent storage requirements. Even if you come up on the short end of the 95%/5% protection chance, people who contract COVID-19 after receiving the vaccine are experiencing milder symptoms on average.

Since allergic reactions are virtually unknown after the first shot, paranoid folks could at least take the first shot for the 80% protection. Again, better than nothing.

My wife and I get our second shot on Thursday.

I'm not telling you to do it ... that's your decision. I'm telling you why we damn sure did. ;-)
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
I promise you don't know another lay person who knows as much about this disease as I do. I spent weeks studying medical reports and treatment studies last year. You don't want to get it. Outside of the risk of death, which is MANY times higher than the flu (despite the chorus of the "it's just the flu" people who get their medical advice from Facebook memes), there is a significant risk of organ damage (lung, heart, and others) even in so-called mild cases. Lucky enough to avoid death or organ damage? How about winding up like a lady I met a couple of weeks ago. She and her husband suffered greatly with the virus at Thanksgiving, recovered, but STILL have not regained their senses of taste or smell--five months later. She told me every meal feels like eating cotton balls.

I prefer to sidestep ALL of that.

This vaccine was developed quickly, but had one of the most intense trials in the history of vaccines. Neither the Moderna nor the Pfizer vaccines provide 100% protection, but after the second shot, you're at 95%. That's better than 0%. I chose the Moderna vaccine for us because of the 80% protection two weeks after the first shots, as opposed to 50% for Pfizer, although some sources rate the Pfizer vaccine about equal to Moderna after the first shot. The Moderna vaccine has less stringent storage requirements. Even if you come up on the short end of the 95%/5% protection chance, people who contract COVID-19 after receiving the vaccine are experiencing milder symptoms on average.

Since allergic reactions are virtually unknown after the first shot, paranoid folks could at least take the first shot for the 80% protection. Again, better than nothing.

My wife and I get our second shot on Thursday.

I'm not telling you to do it ... that's your decision. I'm telling you why we damn sure did. ;-)

Great information. Thanks very much.
And... I think I'll take the shot then.

ETA: What upsets me is the whole mandate and passport thing. As an old hippy, if the MAN tells me to do one thing (even if it's a good idea), I'm inclined to disobey.
 

vranger

Staff member
Supervisor
If those around me have taken it, how could I infect them? And, if those around me chose not to take it, why would they complain about catching it?

For one thing, we're only at 17% vaccination penetration as I type. There are still plenty of people out there to catch it from, and if you get it, you're infectious for a week to 10 days before you are likely to have a clue you're infected. That's the bad thing about this disease. We did EVERYTHING (and more) to prevent COVID-19 spread than we did with SARS and MERS, but this long period of being infectious without symptoms defeated those precautions. This time last year I was on pins and needles for a week every time I hit the grocery store ... less so after I started wearing a mask ... even though they are another bet hedger, not a secure preventative.

What concerns me is we'll have enough people buying into the anti-vax nonsense (that's not politics, that's medical science) that they'll keep the virus in circulation until the vaccine efficacy wears off, and then we're back in the same boat.
 
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bazz cargo

Retired Supervisor
I have not got a political axe to grind. Which is why I refrained form my opinion on Vax passports.

You answer your own point: If those around me have taken it, how could I infect them?
While the vaccine roll out is still going on then you can still infect them. Once the % has reached a safe margin you can then rest on your self image as tough, independent old grouch.

I want to be certain that this discussion does NOT turn political. So as my grandfather used to say, we'll have none of that here.

Thank you for the info, most of which I've read before. Conspiracy stories are off the chart ridiculous, that's not my issue. I'm not worried at all about catching covid, I'd just rather not take the vaccine. If those around me have taken it, how could I infect them? And, if those around me chose not to take it, why would they complain about catching it?
 

indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
I have not got a political axe to grind. Which is why I refrained form my opinion on Vax passports.

You answer your own point: If those around me have taken it, how could I infect them?
While the vaccine roll out is still going on then you can still infect them. Once the % has reached a safe margin you can then rest on your self image as tough, independent old grouch.

:glee: You've got me pegged.
 

Phil Istine

WF Veterans
I want to be certain that this discussion does NOT turn political. So as my grandfather used to say, we'll have none of that here.

Thank you for the info, most of which I've read before. Conspiracy stories are off the chart ridiculous, that's not my issue. I'm not worried at all about catching covid, I'd just rather not take the vaccine. If those around me have taken it, how could I infect them? And, if those around me chose not to take it, why would they complain about catching it?

For me it's not a political issue but a health issue. I understand why some won't take the vaccine, though I don't agree with the reasoning, apart from the very few who might be medically compromised by it.

One of the problems is that it can also be spread by two people touching the same object at different times. It only needs the second person to absent-mindedly rub their nose, mouth, eye or even ear before they've got around to hand washing. It might be a door handle, a petrol pump, or even some touch screen at an ATM or supermarket self serve.

Also, it's not just about those around you; it may be that even though you don't get sick, some virus that goes via you could lethally infect someone five or six people removed. You could unwittingly cause death or severe illness for someone you never knew.

I may be biased because a good friend of mine nearly died from it a year ago. Also, it looks increasingly likely that my recent and current medical issues had covid as a contributory factor, even though I was never aware of having it.

The more people who choose vaccination, the fewer people will sicken or die. If you choose to not vaccinate, please take care of yourself and others.
 

PiP

Staff member
Co-Owner
We have been shielding for over a year now because of my husband's underlying health issues. Luckily for him, he is in Phase 1. He had his first Pfizer jab just over a week ago and the second jab is booked for April 23rd. I am in phase 2 so mine is still several months away. But what this does mean he can now run into the shops instead of me. :) I am counting the days until we can return to a semi-normal life. I will get the travel passport because we travel to France, Spain and the UK
 

Phil Istine

WF Veterans
We have been shielding for over a year now because of my husband's underlying health issues. Luckily for him, he is in Phase 1. He had his first Pfizer jab just over a week ago and the second jab is booked for April 23rd. I am in phase 2 so mine is still several months away. But what this does mean he can now run into the shops instead of me. :) I am counting the days until we can return to a semi-normal life. I will get the travel passport because we travel to France, Spain and the UK

Bear in mind that your husband's immunity doesn't kick in fully until about 2-3 weeks after jab 2, and even that is below 100%.
 

Irwin

Senior Member
I received my second Pfizer shot on Friday. There were some mild side effects: a bit of lethargy, nausea, and a mild headache–nothing serious. Yesterday, there was still a bit of those lingering on, but today I feel fine.

I'm glad I got vaccinated. I trust science for the most part, and while there have been a few instances of severe reactions, the same could be said about crossing the street or flying in a plane.
 

PiP

Staff member
Co-Owner
Bear in mind that your husband's immunity doesn't kick in fully until about 2-3 weeks after jab 2, and even that is below 100%.
haha... yes, he has a note in his diary. Hopefully we will both be clear by the end of July so we can travel to our family in France to see the grandkids. They've all had COVID. Our daughter was very sick and has scarring on her lungs but her hubby and children were okay.

IndianRoads, I hope you feel reassured now. :)
 

SueC

Staff member
Senior Mentor
Background: I rarely see a doctor, and when I do I frequently refuse to follow their advice and tell them so. Predictably, I've not submitted to the paranoia and gotten a covid shot because I strongly object to the government mandating what I put into my body.

Before covid I toured the country on my motorcycle every summer, but the stupid lock-down kept me at home last year. This coming summer my wife wants us both to visit my daughter's family out in California, and she's concerned about this covid passport that may be coming.
.
Advice? Shot or no shot?

Here's the deal, Indianroads - the government is NOT mandating you get a shot. They have the vaccine; you need the vaccine - end of story. You still have a choice. There is NO "mandating" from the government. You use words like "paranoia," to describe what you think other people are experiencing, but it sounds like you are riddled with it. You admit to rarely seeing a doc, because you are <insert paranoid> because you think he's going to find something? Same excuse for not following any advice from a medical professional, yes? The lock downs were initiated by elected state officials who felt they were in a position to protect the citizens of their state from a pandemic. The federal government did not insist on this, but the medical professionals (i.e. CDC) did recommend such actions.

I hope you and your wife get the vaccine and stop bellyaching about it. Too many people have died from this thing - don't add to the list. We need you here to critique and write and continue to be part of our family! Hugs. :)

Sue :)
 

vranger

Staff member
Supervisor
haha... yes, he has a note in his diary. Hopefully we will both be clear by the end of July so we can travel to our family in France to see the grandkids. They've all had COVID. Our daughter was very sick and has scarring on her lungs but her hubby and children were okay.

IndianRoads, I hope you feel reassured now. :)

Yeah, that's one of the organ damage possibilities ... lung damage similar to asbestos exposure. :-( They've known about that since a mid-February 2020 study of a couple of dozen "mild case" patients in China. And I had to track down that study myself, because NO ONE was publicly discussing that for months. I think it was late April or May before Dr. Birx (over here) made a brief mention of cardiovascular damage as a possibility.

I'm supposing part of the reason is they were encouraging people to take precautions anyway, and it wouldn't have done any good to precipitate additional aberrant mob behaviors.
 
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Gofa

Friends of WF
Why do you claim it is mandated The government aren’t forcing you
yet being resistant frames in your post
just advised

you might be bullet proof but

i have had covid
consequences are the long term debilitation of my lungs now over a year
and reduced oxygen saturation in my lungs

wanna roll the dice

its just the flu Yeah not
The USA has made this a subject of such misinformation
and yet
all these men of great worth and political power
speak loudly of your right to choose
while running quickly to be injected
because ?
 

Matchu

Senior Member
...usual error of writing rather than sincere dialogue error...delete.
 
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indianroads

Staff member
Global Moderator
Here's the deal, Indianroads - the government is NOT mandating you get a shot. They have the vaccine; you need the vaccine - end of story. You still have a choice. There is NO "mandating" from the government. You use words like "paranoia," to describe what you think other people are experiencing, but it sounds like you are riddled with it. You admit to rarely seeing a doc, because you are <insert paranoid> because you think he's going to find something? Same excuse for not following any advice from a medical professional, yes? The lock downs were initiated by elected state officials who felt they were in a position to protect the citizens of their state from a pandemic. The federal government did not insist on this, but the medical professionals (i.e. CDC) did recommend such actions.

I hope you and your wife get the vaccine and stop bellyaching about it. Too many people have died from this thing - don't add to the list. We need you here to critique and write and continue to be part of our family! Hugs. :)

Sue :)

A bit personal, but ok. I don't go to doctors because, 1) I don't like doctors. 2) I'm the worst for it every time I let them do something. 3) Many are an arrogant lot, and get irate when I refuse to follow their orders.

Example. Back in the 80s I fought in a martial art tournament in Italy. They had different rules than what I was used to in the US, and I took a full power kick to my knee. I had a less than terrific experience with socialized medicine before flying back home. After awhile my knee healed, but it had an annoying 'tick' whenever I bent it. My wife and friends pestered me until I relented and went in for some sort of surgical clean up of my knee. For months afterward, if I stood too long my knee would swell to twice it's size. AND it still ticks when I climb stairs.

Example. In my 40's I suffered with cluster migraines. Wife pestered until I went to the doctor. Doctor scanned my head, said nothing wrong (as I had predicted). Then said I had to eat more brown rice.

Example. More migraines. Once again at the doctor (different one). She looked in my eyes, then suggested a butt-osocopy. I told her that a lot of people have said that my head is up my @ss, but I never thought they meant literally.

Example. Butt-oscopy that left me bleeding for weeks afterward. And I still get migraines, but my wife doesn't pester me anymore.

There's more, but my point is made. Not paranoid, experienced.

Congressmen and Congresswomen are talking about a covid passport. Yes they are. Our state governor supports it. How will this be used? Check into hotels? Quarantine when crossing state lines without proper papers?

IndianRoads not happy. :neglected: But has signed up for the first shot next Thursday.
 
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vranger

Staff member
Supervisor
"The USA has made this a subject of such misinformation"

Just one quibble here. China and the World Health Organization intentionally misled the world about COVID-19. BOTH, for quite some time, claimed the disease was difficult to transmit human to human, and they knew better.

Health officials worldwide bought into it. It's was China's desire to cover their asses, and for some reason WHO was complicit: payoffs, currying favor, idiocy? I don't know, but some reason existed. In the USA, Fauci completely bought into those lies and set us back MONTHS in proper public information, when it was obvious from transmission on the Diamond Princess the disease was primarily an aerosol vector. But the initial lies out of China created confusion with long legs.

If China hadn't bald-faced lied, we'd have known weeks earlier about the period of being contagious without symptoms, and would have adjusted quarantine protocols accordingly. Instead, we went MONTHS with advice concentrated on cleaning surfaces rather than not breathing the disease into someone else's face.

Frankly, once this disease got out into general population, it was always going to be as bad as it got. Proof? By summer we had social distancing, most people wearing masks, crowd avoidance, more restrictions than we could even keep up with, and STILL had the worst three month period in the course of the disease. We probably stopped it from being even worse, but we were never going to get a better result than we got.

The only good news from that period of time is that treatment plans improved to the point the mortality rate dropped dramatically by mid-summer. Yes, in raw numbers, more people contracted COVID-19, more people died from it, but the mortality rate (at least in the US) dropped to 1.6% by mid-summer, and 1% by late November. Sadly, not every country fared as well. At mid-summer, the mortality rate was still 8% in the UK, 10% in Italy, 5% in Sweden, 5% in Canada, and 3% in France. There is a possibility those percentages are inflated from less effective testing penetration. If you don't find the milder cases to count, you get a higher apparent mortality rate.

Those rates are not the overall rate from the global onset of infections. They come from taking reported infections from a one week period, and reported deaths from two-three weeks later, which encompasses the period after infection when most deaths occur. That gives a picture of treatment success week to week.
 
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