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Jordan/Tolkien/Mcaffrey (1 Viewer)

Screinstein

Senior Member
ok so i have been reading a bunch of these forums lately b.c im bored and really didnt have much to do and they caught my eye... particularly the eragon thread...

one thing that seems to have everyone and their brother caught all up in arms about is the unoriginality of new books (once again particularly eragon) and how these books pretty much just copy ideas out of the three aforementioned authors plus a few others...

my problem is this: how can u nowadays come up with a COMPLETELY original idea without grabbing some elements of these authors??? i mean tolkien established the fantasy world, he wrote the rules for elves, dwarves, halflings and their interactions. Mcaffrey wrote THE book on dragaons and Jordan (i just love this guy, possibly my favorite author EVER... i mean matt, perrin, and rand or the coolest ppl ever!!!) has the magic down no matter what name u want to put on it... These were some of the greatest authors of our time and if u want to write a book about elves or magic or dragons you're BOUND to repeat some ideas be it ripoff, tribute, or plain happenstance...

thats just my thoughts and there are other major authors that should be put up with these three but im lazy like that so if u think ur author deserves an activist post them up and we'll see what happens
 
Alot of famous writing has been inspired by works already created. Things are bound to get repeated, but the repitition of ideas can often be good.

Drow (dark elves) could be considered an example of something copied but made original.
 

Oracle

Senior Member
How do you make something different?

Simple. Create your own world... In my fantasy series, I created all the races, developed my own science, and created my own powerful beings and phenomenons.

I don't have elves, dwarves, orcs, etc.

I have completely different beings... Kikinos, Aquiyyans, Zaelans, and Tyrsens. Hopefully one day, if my series is published, you'll be able to know more about those races.

I completely redefined "fairies" and "dragons" and made them something they've never been before, completely integrated with the science of my world.

I think my world is very unique, and I can't wait to finish writing my series.
 
I can't seem to put Jordan's books dow, HE IS AMAZING. No matter what I write about, I always seem to have some idea similar to one of his pop in my head. If you read to much of an author you tend to get some of their ideas lodged in your head.

If you look at almost any book, you will find repeated elements. Whether in name or description, something will be repeated.

This is my theory.
 

lisajane

Senior Member
Another example of an today's author who's created his own world is Chris Wooding, who wrote the book series Broken Sky. But he wasn't satisfied with one world with its own races, people, beings, geography, way of life... he created two. And they're both in the series. And then there's races, people and beings that are created from both worlds...

Very good series, I own the original set (there's about four different versions now). Marketed for ages nine and above, but you'd probably have to be about fourteen or fifteen to fully understand what's going on.
 

Pawn

Patron
Jordan is probably the worst published fantasy author. Go read George R.R. Martin and Robin Hobb.
 

Screinstein

Senior Member
now now now, lets not go dissing Jordan...
one man's worst published author is another man's immortal, immaculate, incredible writing gOd

lol
 

Pawn

Patron
Please, compare his writing, and I'm talking about his actual writing, the way he writes, his style, to any decent novelist. Jesus God, he is unbearably boring. I once accidentally skipped one of the books in his sequence, and didn't notice for months. His is the only fantasy series I've ever stopped reading. The man just can't write. As to the 'rivetting' plot: I've written better things on beer mats. His protagonist is unbearably stupid, and he bases his entire plots around repeated absurd misunderstandings and lacks of communication. For twelve books, or whatever. I mean Jesus. The man's a gratuitous fraud. And yes, I'm being terribly extreme about all this, but I really don't like him. I encourage you to read good fantasy authors.
 

Talia_Brie

Senior Member
I don't want to get into how good or bad Jordan is, but I will add Steve Erikson to the list of exceptionally talented fantasy writers begun by Pawn.

So that'll be:

George R R Martin
Robin Hobb
Steven Erikson.

You might think Jordan has created the consumate magical system, but read Erikson. He's created the most impressive system of magic I've ever encountered.
 

Tyson

Senior Member
Ok if you want repeated ideas, you have to put down one of the original books. The Bible. It has fantasy in it and other things describe I mean ways you could interpret things. You could take dragons out of it if you really wanted. I figured if we were giving credit to the birth of ideas the bible would be a good book to put down.
Tyson
 

Pawn

Patron
I quite enjoy Ian Irvine's work too, in the unlikely event that anyone's ever read any of his stuff. Ursula Le Guin should probably get a credit for inventing Harry Potter before J.K Rowling had so much as peed herself.
 

Talia_Brie

Senior Member
Pawn said:
I quite enjoy Ian Irvine's work too, in the unlikely event that anyone's ever read any of his stuff.

I have, and while I managed to finish the first series of four books, it was only because someone lent me the last one. I wouldn't have paid money for it.

That being said, it was original, and created a unique set of worlds, races and cultures. So that's a good thing. I didn't like the protagonist I think. It was a while ago.
 
G

Gaes

Talia_Brie said:
I don't want to get into how good or bad Jordan is, but I will add Steve Erikson to the list of exceptionally talented fantasy writers begun by Pawn.

So that'll be:

George R R Martin
Robin Hobb
Steven Erikson.

You might think Jordan has created the consumate magical system, but read Erikson. He's created the most impressive system of magic I've ever encountered.

Erikson is superb, the world he created he made his own without needing to rip off any ideas.
Had a WOT book as a present for my birthday and don't have the heart to tell my OH that I really don't like Jordan's books :(
 

Pawn

Patron
Erikson's an author who I'm looking to get into, after reading a number of positive thoughts on him here at the forum. Martin came to me that way too. See, this forum really is useful!

Irvine's originality is nice. No dragons, no wizards. I wouldn't put him on a par with some of the others mentioned, I guess. Hobb will always be my favourite, because she before everything else a damn good writer.
 

Mike C

WF Veterans
For true originality in fantasy - and god know's there's little enough of it - read China Mieville. His first novel - king rat - is gritty urban fantasy like you never read before. His next, Perdido Street Station... just read it. you'll thank me.


http://www.write-across-europe.com
 

Talia_Brie

Senior Member
Pawn said:
Irvine's originality is nice. No dragons, no wizards. I wouldn't put him on a par with some of the others mentioned, I guess. Hobb will always be my favourite, because she before everything else a damn good writer.

That's what I thought too. His ideas were good, but I don't think the execution was there.

Having said that though, Steven Erikson uses dragons, but in an original way, as difficult as that is to believe.

He also has the best names for his characters. Quick Ben. Anomander Rake. WhiskeyJack. Rallick Nom. Caladon Brood. They're just cool.
 

Ham

Senior Member
Talia_Brie said:
So that'll be:

George R R Martin
Robin Hobb
Steven Erikson.

Agree with all of these, and to this pantheon of contemporary epic fantasists who are actually gifted writers as well, I'd add Guy Gavriel Kay. He's my favorite prose stylist among the group, and only Martin is as gifted a plotter. Tigana and Lions of Al-Rassan are my favorite single-volume fantasies ever. I also have high hopes for R. Scott Bakker, but haven't read far enough to feel comfortable drawing any conclusions just yet.

I agree also with the person who chimed in on China Mieville's behalf. I don't think he belongs in the same company, but only because he's not writing epic fantasy. He's more of an urban or contemporary fantasist, and is doing it as well as anybody. I group him with Neil Gaiman (when Gaiman's at his best, anyway) and Tim Powers atop this group.
 

Talia_Brie

Senior Member
I'd add my vote for Guy Gavriel Kay as well. I've just read the Fionavar books, but I thought they were exellent, and brilliantly written.

So:

George R R Martin
Robin Hobb
Steven Erikson
Guy Gavriel Kay.

It's not a very long list, is it?
 

Ham

Senior Member
Talia_Brie said:
I'd add my vote for Guy Gavriel Kay as well. I've just read the Fionavar books, but I thought they were exellent, and brilliantly written.

You should definitely check out Kay's other stuff if you liked Fionavar. F.T. is well written compared to most of what's out there, but his writing and plotting styles have matured considerably from that early work. It only gets better from there.
 

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