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In what ways could a sex scene advance the plot (aka make the story better)? (1 Viewer)

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MorganaPendragon25

Senior Member
So I've been back-and-forth about including a sex scene in my story between my villainess and an important male character (probably her enemy or perhaps someone she used to love but still has sexual cravings for). My villainess has a pretty high sex drive....but this sex scene would be to lure this man she's targeting out of hiding. She makes herself completely vulnerable by having sex with him...no armor or anything really to protect her. However, during sex...I think she'll do something very unexpected and either choke the man to death or have a hidden knife/sword close to her where she stabs him to his death. I don't think that type of death scene has been done much before (I think Red Sparrow did it?). I think this type of sex scene would make a powerful statement about my villainess. She's usually armored up or with her weapons, but she strips down and makes her body completely vulnerable to her enemy (to lure him out of hiding) and she ends up slaying him.

Please let me know your thoughts about that idea. And what if I wrote it in First-Person from HER perspective?

Also, just in general, what ways could a sex scene drive the plot forward that you have seen before?

*Also a sidenote: My villainess doesn't want kids, so don't worry, she's on plenty of birth control or she might even be sterilized!
 

Sir-KP

Senior Member
You already have purpose of this particular scene to be put in.

The next thing you should watch out is to not make a first-person erotica.
 
MorganaPendragon25, I love your scene idea! Frankly, it sounds awesome! And definitely moves the plot forward.

In terms of how graphic you'd want to make it, that all comes down to your genre and target audience. If you're writing an epic fantasy, you can get by with suggestion/euphemism/general understatement about what's happening, without going into a lot of detail. Your readers won't be looking for that, and frankly many of them might be turned off by mushy-gushy love and lust and sex and feeeeeelings...

If romance/sexuality is a recurring theme in your work, and you want to reach those readers who do appreciate it, and it's in a fantasy romance subgenre, AND it's something you enjoy writing about... then by all means, write it with all the good bits left in! (Pun... um... kinda intended? LOL.)

On a related note, there's the 'honeypot' method of espionage-plus-seduction with the intent to kill the bad-guy target. Just look at Mata Hari! So badass. It's not a new idea, but you might see it more often in movies (thrillers, spy games, etc.) than in books. That I know of!
 

robertn51

Friends of WF
MorganaPendragon25, I love your scene idea! Frankly, it sounds awesome! And definitely moves the plot forward.

Hmmm... Let's see here...

Scene Characters:
1. MorganaPendragon25's Villainess with her "pretty high sex drive".
2. Important Male in his hidey-hole.

Scene Set-up:
Important Male from his hidey-hole can see and access MorganaPendragon25's Villainess who is stripped down naked and "completely" vulnerable except for those various sharp-edged weapon(s) she has cleverly hidden within reach and also vulnerable except for her cleverly hidden strength and ability to manually strangle Important Male.

Scene Action:
MorganaPendragon25's Villainess lures and then kills Important Male during sex.

Scene "Plot":
For unexpressed reasons and goals MorganaPendragon25's Villainess lures and then kills Important Male during sex.

Ok.

I might be wrong, but the scene reads like a black widow spider mating.

Or maybe like a classic pizza-delivery boy Snuff Porno.

To the bit I quoted: How does MorganaPendragon25's Villainess' snuff of the Important Male "move the plot forward"? What plot? And what aspect of it is moving? What goal is being achieved? What value is being pursued and acquired? Why a sex murder rather than outright murder? Why not just spear, bullet, or arrow him? He's right there in his hidey-hole, watching you.

What does the unabashed snuff murder of Important Male accomplish for MorganaPendragon25's Villainess? For the story?

And what does talking in public about this putative Snuff Porno accomplish for MorganaPendragon25, et al.?

Or wait! Maybe it's just yet another "honey pot" forum topic to get hapless WF members, especially females, to engage and write publicly to MorganaPendragon25, et al., about sex?

From the way-back:
...I love being inside her head and writing what she thinks, how she sees the world...

Ah.

Meta-Fiction shows its hoary head. And in public, too.

Ever see the movie "Sex, Lies, and Videotape"? Compelling stuff. True effect, too.

Interesting, that.

But the erotica might need to go back with you behind the door to The Red Light Room? That's the place for it, right? Full of experienced writers serious about writing the stuff.

Or maybe Snuff Fiction is not allowed in there, either.

Yes, J'Accuse
 

Folcro

Creative Area Specialist (Fiction)
WF Veterans
It sounds like you already described how your sex scene advances the plot. What I feel more strongly about, regarding sex scenes (and you mention this too) is character development.

Power and control are big aspects of sex, whether it is achieving power through sex, or allowing sex to be that one relief where a control freak lets power go. Perhaps your villain's relinquishment of armor represents the release of her burden that is power, only to don it again when she rises from the bed.
 

Matchu

Senior Member
Something similar happened to me at university when the old boyfriend called around - bust down the door - and we were kind of mid-scene if you catch my - I didn’t kill him as such, although threat of war hammer was evident. Top secret story btw
 
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Kimoco

Senior Member
I've read it before though, in a fantasy novel and in a comic, woman killing men during sex. It's just not a novelty. Also, does the hiding man know she's the villain? He isnt hiding very well either if she knows where he is, enough to get him out of there and lure him to sex. Of course we are missing a lot of elements here, but hopefully it helps!
 

bazz cargo

Retired Supervisor
So I've been back-and-forth about including a sex scene in my story between my villainess and an important male character (probably her enemy or perhaps someone she used to love but still has sexual cravings for). My villainess has a pretty high sex drive....but this sex scene would be to lure this man she's targeting out of hiding. She makes herself completely vulnerable by having sex with him...no armor or anything really to protect her. However, during sex...I think she'll do something very unexpected and either choke the man to death or have a hidden knife/sword close to her where she stabs him to his death. I don't think that type of death scene has been done much before (I think Red Sparrow did it?). I think this type of sex scene would make a powerful statement about my villainess. She's usually armored up or with her weapons, but she strips down and makes her body completely vulnerable to her enemy (to lure him out of hiding) and she ends up slaying him.

Please let me know your thoughts about that idea. And what if I wrote it in First-Person from HER perspective?

Also, just in general, what ways could a sex scene drive the plot forward that you have seen before?

*Also a sidenote: My villainess doesn't want kids, so don't worry, she's on plenty of birth control or she might even be sterilized!
Somewhere I have a part work languishing. It has a psycho female who meets men at night clubs, goes back to their hotel and during sex.. breaks their neck with her thighs. This one turns out to have a suitcase full of cash and a sniper rifle in is rental car.
 

Riptide

WF Veterans
I agree with Roberts that it does sound like a black widow mating, and some of their questions to better elaborate the story, though their execution seemed more like an attack... but then again, maybe I'm not versed in the context surround it?

I think it would cut her going in with the intentions of killing this dude, because if we know the character well enough, then the reader won't be surprised she kills him, and in first person, we should know. Having her actually fall for the guy, then be frightened by her own emotions--her own real emotions--or whatever, which causes her to kill him out of fear of what this could mean. IMO, I'd like that because then she can be so eaten up about it and slowly fall into Avatar Azula levels of crazy
 

vranger

Staff member
Supervisor
Somewhere I have a part work languishing. It has a psycho female who meets men at night clubs, goes back to their hotel and during sex.. breaks their neck with her thighs. This one turns out to have a suitcase full of cash and a sniper rifle in is rental car.
A Russian chick (Onatop in Goldeneye) tried that on James Bond. It had worked on other victims, but he prevailed. ;-) (Actually, she just suffocated them, but near enough. LOL)

But, yeah, it's not a new deal. Any movie buff has seen it a few times.
 

Matchu

Senior Member
In fact my ‘Jacobite story’ - unpublished but brilliant - sees a Presbyterian warlord disabled in his arousal while Daisy the assassin reaches for her dirk. Quite gripping - literary gripping, hands on pillow.
 

Theglasshouse

WF Veterans
I've seen a sex scene that is more interesting plot wise. A woman who is the wife of the hero is recorded on a cellphone having wearing her undergarments. The person is his enemy. Supposedly he knows all his secrets he tells him on the cell phone because of her talking. Maybe these could possibilities that she was drugged. This worries him, and then he must clear up the confusion and mystery. Believe me when I have seen a woman with a knife behind her back, and then she goes for the person's throat. It was probably hidden below a pillow, but I forget.
 

robertn51

Friends of WF
I need to allocute.

To members MorganaPendragon25, Sir-KP, autumnst

I should not have personally accused you of doing something wrong. That's not my station in this forum and with my behavior I have exceeded the bounds of my membership and opened myself to a Policy Violation and all that presents.

If I have a future here, I will do within it what I always could have done: Ignore unpleasant content and its effects, and to trust in the other members' abilities to manage it too.

In closing: I regret my behavior and any damage it may have caused. I also regret doing it over Mother's Day (US), causing others even more stress.

PS: Irresistible, but OT and in bounds. This situation is an interesting seed for a story, no? Either human-interest drama or lecherous thriller. Or both! Aqualung, my friend, don't you start away uneasy; you poor old sod you see it's only me.... Now if only I can keep the clichéd Hollywooden melodrama out of it.
 
Hi robertn51.

In reading your allocution, I didn't see an "I'm sorry" or an "I apologize". But, speaking only for myself, I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt, because you do sound regretful and you are taking steps to make amends. So, let me just say: thank you, all the same.

I'm hoping you or someone else on the forums can help explain something to me. Because I'm new here and still learning the ropes, rules, and culture of the Writing Forums, some things may stand out as rather odd to me... from my, perhaps, outsider's pov.

I notice that any discussion of sexuality in fiction tends to evoke rabidly angry and scornful reactions here. Not from all members, to be sure, but certainly a sizeable proportion of them. And it seems as if even posting to the doubly-locked Red Light Room doesn't prevent people from hurling slights at the original poster... when it's the writing itself that is under discussion, not the imagined proclivities or personal life of the writer.

Why the insults and jokes at the writer's expense? Why the hysteria? Why the shaming? Why can't it be as simple as thinking to oneself, "Nah, this just isn't for me," and moving on with the day?

We're all (mostly) adults here. Some are older and wiser than us (relatively) young'uns, and you'd imagine the former set as having a more mature view of things, adult themes in particular. Maybe we need a pinned post that adds a special stipulation, something along the lines of: "When discussing writing with sexual themes and undertones in it, you are doing so at your own risk. People react differently to different kinds of writing, and you risk piquing ire or evoking visceral reactions, not always positive. Thar be dragons, etc. etc. etc."

I only say this because I was under the impression that this was a friendly, safe, welcoming place for authors of all genres and experience levels. And, so far, my opinion hasn't changed. From my brief experience here, I find that the forum is made up of a very many smart, talented, generous people, who are kind enough to give of their time to help fellow writers with their craft.

I just need to know something. And I need to know it in clear, no-uncertain, terms:

Is it okay for me to post sexually-themed writing to the appropriate subforum for feedback? Is it okay for me to offer my own feedback to other writers writing on those themes?

If the answer to both is an unqualified "No", I'd be more than happy to comply. I don't like to argue. I don't like to make waves, nor make problems for other people. Especially not complete strangers on the internet. And I certainly don't find snide jabs, for choosing to write on a certain subject matter, to be helpful in my progress as an author.

If it really is that offensive, I'd be more than happy to not post about it here at all. And no hard feelings, either! Every forum has its rules, and I'll always take pains to abide by them.

But if the answer is really "Yes" to both or either question... well, that would just be grand.
 
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Matchu

Senior Member
Writing forums attract people with obsessions and they begin multiple threads on multiple forums to articulate the obsession framed in different ways but essentially the same narrow issue -expressed. People respond. Then they respond again, they respond another time. They respond with humour or sarcasm or kindness but the obsession over a decade essentially remains fixed, it doesn’t appear to veer toward a finished, or even the beginnings of a writing project. Most people are fairly considerate. It’s almost a problem but then again is not...
 

Theglasshouse

WF Veterans
I agree with Roberts that it does sound like a black widow mating, and some of their questions to better elaborate the story, though their execution seemed more like an attack... but then again, maybe I'm not versed in the context surround it?

I think it would cut her going in with the intentions of killing this dude, because if we know the character well enough, then the reader won't be surprised she kills him, and in first person, we should know. Having her actually fall for the guy, then be frightened by her own emotions--her own real emotions--or whatever, which causes her to kill him out of fear of what this could mean. IMO, I'd like that because then she can be so eaten up about it and slowly fall into Avatar Azula levels of crazy
I agree with this post. To avoid the cliche. I think motivation is going to more important here and that it would be interesting to me as a reader more so if the motive it is a unique one. It would make for a far more interesting character. Character development would help your story be original. That's tricky. Depending on the situation in the story you'll need to think outside of the box. I have seen a movie based on the black widow plot. I have even read a story based on this plot. Be creative and find a motivation and have fun while doing so.
 

Phil Istine

WF Veterans
MODERATOR NOTE:
I've got a bit behind with the moderation since the change in forum software. Please take note that there is a link to the forum rules at the bottom left of each page. There is a report facility beneath each post if someone has an issue about a post being in contravention. Thanks.
 
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