Writing Forums

Writing Forums is a privately-owned, community managed writing environment. We provide an unlimited opportunity for writers and poets of all abilities, to share their work and communicate with other writers and creative artists. We offer an experience that is safe, welcoming and friendly, regardless of your level of participation, knowledge or skill. There are several opportunities for writers to exchange tips, engage in discussions about techniques, and grow in your craft. You can also participate in forum competitions that are exciting and helpful in building your skill level. There's so much more for you to explore!

Does this character's decision make sense? (1 Viewer)

Status
Not open for further replies.

ironpony

Senior Member
I had some feedback from readers and they felt I should switch protagonists to another character but if I do that, then I have to change some parts of the plot around to acommodate the character switch. I was wondering, if this new situation I come up with makes sense.

So in the story, there is a group of villains and of them is a crooked cop who is working for them in police, a mole, you could say. During a shootout and fight, the mole accidentally kills another cop, but tries to make seem like the villains he are working with did it, and pins it on them. The villains go on the run from the police but the leader of the villains talks the rest of them into thinking that the best plan of action is to send the police proof that they have a mole in the department who is working with them the whole time, and tell the police that it's the mole who killed the other cop and actually pinned on them.

They cannot prove that the mole killed the other cop, but they can prove that he is a mole, and that he is not to be trusted, so any evidence he tries to bring forth, the police will not rely on therefore. But does this new plan make sense, or is not something the villains would do logically? I'm not trying to ask others on here to tell my story for me of course, I was just wondering if I my new idea holds together logically. Thank you for any opinions on it though!
 

Sir-KP

Senior Member
I'm confused with the whole event.

So there's a cop who is a mole working for the villains, right? For however and whatever reason, he killed one of the police during a shootout and tries to put the crime on the villains' hands. Villain leader didn't like it and thinking of dealing with the police about this mole.

My question first and foremost is: Why did the mole do this? What was the purpose of being a mole, killing an enemy (the police), and putting the blood on the group he works for?

Was he a total moron or a two-faced backstabber for personal gain?


Either way, I'm thinking that if the villain knows this, they should just pretend they aren't aware of it, then set up a meeting for intel and kill the mole. Much more effective and tactical than "We didn't do this!" attempt. Extra threat points to show to the law that the villains aren't messing around.
 

ironpony

Senior Member
Oh well the mole does it because at this point he figures they have gone too far, and has had enough. So the mole thinks it's time for them to go down. The mole was thinking this before the shootout happened, but once the villains cause the shootout to happen the mole has had enough even more, but also sees an opportunity to bring them down by placing them the murder on their hands now so to speak, if that makes sense. The gang could try to set up a meeting with the mole, but they know that the mole has turned against them and will not go for it now, so setting up a meeting is not good, when they know the mole will most likely not show up now. The mole is not foolish enough to accept a meeting from them, after pinning the crime on them, and would now be hiding out from them at this point.
 

Sir-KP

Senior Member
So the mole basically switched side then. The villain could try convincing the police like your plan, but perhaps in a more formal and personal. Example: the leader meet up with the chief to discuss this.

Or threaten the mole by kidnapping or hurting his relatives or property.
 

ironpony

Senior Member
Oh okay. I wanted to write to so that the leader tries to convince the police that the mole was framing them, but I wonder, how do they do this without making their situation worse. If they go to the police and say one of your own was a mole for us and he framed us, then they would be incriminated themselves even further most likely? So it seems like maybe that's a dumb thing to do as well? How do you convince the police that you were framed for murder, when you have to give away that you have a mole working for you? That's why I was wondering if the idea even makes sense or not.
 

Llyralen

Senior Member
If I was the leader of the villains, I'd just send the proof. It could show up in a really kind of dramatic way... maybe nailed to the Chief of Police's refrigerator (just a random example) or SOMETHING that says. "I'm tough and I could take you out if I wanted to". Because you want to be stylish as a villain leader, I'd think and show your swagger. But... yes it makes sense. As the leader of the villains I'd feel like the mole shoved us under the bus and I'd be furious... and probably see what else we could do to trip him up (the mole) or scare him (the mole) or maybe even hurt him depending on what type of villain leader I am. =)
 

ironpony

Senior Member
Oh okay. But the part I am worried doesn't make enough sense though is, let's say the villains send in the proof. The the police go after the mole, arrest him and force to him to cut a deal and turn in the others. Wouln't the villains think this is a bad idea therefore, if that happens?

Originally in the story I wrote it so that the mole dies and that the a certain group of cops want revenge on the villains for getting away with it. But the villains convince the cops that the dead mole is one of them, in order to deter the cops from revenge, because they will not think a mole who is one of the crooks the whole time would be worth avenging.

But does this make more sense than the scenario if the mole were to live?
 
Last edited:

MistWolf

Senior Member
IP, you're on the right track. A crooked cop is on the take and passing info to the badguys for money. He doesn't work for the badguys, he works for himself. He's betrayed the trust of his brothers & sisters in blue. If discovered, he'll face the full wrath of the justice system and the fate of a cop in prison among the general population- a painful death.

The dirty cop starts feeling a little cocky. He wants more money. The info he's been passing along is good and the gang had been profiting from it. He's been taking all the risks, you know? If they don't want to pay him more, well, he knows a few ways to make their lives hard. Gang leader doesn't see it this way and the relationship starts crumbling

When dirty cop kills a fellow officer, he pins it on the badguys. He does this to make trouble for the gang and save his own skin.

The gang knows they were set up. The leader is a smart one. Knowing the fate of a cop sent to prison, he decides it would be delicious irony to let the System do the work for them while keeping their hands clean and gaining street cred. Gang supplies cops with phone video or phones in an anonymous tip to the location of the bullet that passed through the slain officer and sits back to enjoy the show.
 

ironpony

Senior Member
Oh okay thanks. But the part I am having trouble believing makes sense though, is when the villains tell the police that the dirty cop is working for them, if it leads to the arrest of the dirty cop, then wouldn't the dirty cop just cut a deal, and rat them all out? So aren't the villains giving the police a reason for somone to rat them all out then by doing that?
 

MistWolf

Senior Member
Oh okay thanks. But the part I am having trouble believing makes sense though, is when the villains tell the police that the dirty cop is working for them, if it leads to the arrest of the dirty cop, then wouldn't the dirty cop just cut a deal, and rat them all out? So aren't the villains giving the police a reason for someone to rat them all out then by doing that?
In life, there are no guarantees. The dirty cop could try to cut a deal, but that deal might be 20 years in prison in solitary rather than 20 years in GP (General Population). Not much of a deal. In real life, cops really hate dirty cops.

Also, there is this thing where the first rat get the best deal. By ratting out the dirty cop first, the gangs might earn themselves a little slack from the DA. Also, what suits the DAs agenda better? Cutting a deal with a dirty cop to get the goods on a known gang? Or, taking down a dirty cop, a traitor, someone giving The System a black eye, sending a message certain communities that dirty cops will get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law? What the dirty cop knows may not be much help to the prosecution.

Since this is fiction, The Big Voice From The Ceiling gets the majority vote. What works best for the story? Letting the dirty cop make a deal and use the info to take down the gang? Or, the irony of a dirty cop served justice by a criminal gang?

Check out the Harry Bosch novels by Michael Connelly. Start with the first one- The Black Echo. You can just feel the weight of LAPD police procedure in each book. Check out how dirty officers are handled. Also take notes how the dialogue is written. It's clear who's speaking without "he said" "she said".
 
Last edited:

ironpony

Senior Member
Oh okay thanks. I can check that out, thanks. But what I am wondering is, why would the villains risk delivering the dirty cop to the police, if that will cause him to rate likely, or is it worth the risk to deliver a rat like that to the police? Wouldn't the villains just be digging their own hole, or is it worth the risk? This is the part I have trouble swallowing in my own plot, is why would the villains choose to dig their own hole?
 

MistWolf

Senior Member
The dirty cop doesn't have any evidence. He can tell investigators he took bribes from the badguys, but it becomes "he said, she said" thing. But accepting bribes is the least of Dirty Cop's crimes. He also killed a fellow officer and covered it up.

You're suffering from Analysis Paralysis. Stop thinking about the plot holes and start writing. You'll either figure out how to fill in the holes or how to change teh story so there are none.

Stop over-thinking it and go write
 

ironpony

Senior Member
Oh okay, thanks, but the villains give the police PROOF of the dirty cop's involvement though. So it's not a he said, she said, when he, and she said, when if both sides are saying the same thing, and one side delivers proof, isn't it?

Well I wrote a script but have two plot turns I can go with. So in the story, there is a group of villains and of them is a crooked cop who is working for them in the police, a mole, you could say.

During a shootout and fight, the mole accidentally kills another cop, but tries to make it seem like the villains he are working with did it, and pins it on them. The villains go on the run from the police but the leader of the villains talks the rest of them into thinking that the best plan of action is to send the police proof that they have a mole in the department who is working with them the whole time, and tell the police that it's the mole who killed the other cop and actually pinned on them.

Or I could go with another plot turn, in which it's flipped around and the other cop accidentally kills the mole, and pins it on the villains.. Other cops in the police who are friends of the dirty cop then want revenge on the villains, thinking they have done the murder and have gotten away with it, evidence wise.

So the friends set out on the villains for revenge. The villains finds out that a group of vengeful cops are after them so the villains decide to give the police proof that the dead cop that they are avenging is actually a dirty cop. They do this hoping that it will deter the vengeful cops from coming after them, because once they figure out that their friend was dirty and lied to them the whole time, they would not thing their dead friend is worth avenging therefore, and will then likely back off.

But which plot turn do you think sounds better?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top