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Brexit. Discussion Only. (1 Viewer)

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bazz cargo

Retired Supervisor
And so we now have a flock of fantasists looking to unite the Conservative party at the expense of the country. It won't work. We have to accept that Nigel has brought to the surface a enough schisms to end the con party as we know it.

After a few years in the wilderness we will either be the newest State in America or the latest supplicant to join the EU.

Can anyone provide me ten good reasons for leaving the EU?
 

Olly Buckle

Mentor
Patron
Can anyone provide me ten good reasons for leaving the EU?

Well, not ten, but how about this. At present thousands of containers daily pass through British ports to and from the EU. There was a documentary recently where customs had stopped one with forty tons of cannabis and amphetamine. If the dealers can afford to lose that there must be a lot of others getting through. So, stop the traffic and you kill the drug trade dead; not only will it be difficult to smuggle, no one would have the money to buy it if it got here.
 

JustRob

FoWF
WF Veterans
It's people over 50...honky...middle rich who will pick the next PM...members like Bazz Cargo,Olly Burke,Just Rob now have the power

How come when I'm not a member of the Conservative party, indeed do not subscribe to the current idea of party politics at all? At lunch today my angel and I were just discussing, although I'm not sure that she got much say in the discussion, that the only way forward is a community party, but that all too easily gets perceived as being a communist party. Small scale communism, i.e. people taking an interest in their local community, is very different from the national idea of state communism. It is in fact probably the life blood of small town America, although Americans may not thank me for suggesting that. Certainly village communities in Britain see it as the only way to preserve their distinct identities. How our members of parliament represent our local interests is far more important to us than anything that happens at a national level.

At lunch we were actually discussing our experiences on holiday on the Isles of Scilly, a tiny community living on just a few square miles of land well within our edge of the Atlantic Ocean. Tourism is their life blood and they have approached it as an integrated community to their advantage. For example, transport to the islands is provided by one company which integrates both the ferry and air services, so when our flight home was cancelled because of fog they simply transferred us to the ferry without our having to do anything. Very conveniently fog that grounds aircraft also results in a smooth sea crossing for the ferry. In addition they provided a coach to get us from the ferry port on the mainland to the airport where our car was parked over a hundred miles away, all as part of their service. Doing that preserved the reputation of the islands as an ideal tourist destination.

When travelling to the Scillies by ferry one simply puts a label on one's luggage identifying where one will be staying and it will be in the room when one arrives. How it gets there is just something to take for granted. Even if one is staying on one of the "off islands" it will have been shipped over from the ferry by the local boatmen's association, which is now a community service with all the boatmen sharing equally in the profits. In the past they all competed with each other but the new approach works much better for everyone.

There is currently discussion on resuming a helicopter service to the islands that can operate in any weather, but currently two companies are competing to provide it. The local transport company want to do so as an integrated part of their operations but another company is competing with them. The locals very much want the local company to get the contract as it will preserve the integrity of their community and ensure that their reputation for reliability is consistently preserved. Any outside company would be bound to have other business motives. When the fixed wing service was not operating at the end of our holiday, had we had to transfer to a helicopter provided by another company it probably wouldn't have been such a seamless service as the transfer to the ferry was.

This is what I mean by small scale communism and any party that supported this attitude at a national level would certainly attract my interest once electoral reform occurred and we could actually vote for parties to define national policy as distinct from local concerns. In contrast the EU is just too large ever to be regarded as an integrated community. What works well on a few square miles where everybody knows everyone else virtually personally doesn't work across a continent. Also, the Scillies are islands just like Britain with a clearly defined physical boundary. On the continent some towns have never even definitely decided which country they belong to and Switzerland came into existence because people from several neighbouring countries all decided that they didn't want to belong to any of them. Can anyone claim that Switzerland has been a big disaster because its people didn't want to be part of Europe despite being at its centre? The Swiss haven't even agreed on a national language yet but they are pretty successful nevertheless. Any differences of opinion within the UK are trivial in comparison.
 

JustRob

FoWF
WF Veterans
all private school kids start out communist and after they reach 40 they become raving Tories....

Hmm. I was a working class kid who was sent to a charity school that provided the equivalent of a high quality private school education which left me ... well, anywhere in society that I chose to be really. That's why I'm just Rob. I can adapt. So can my angel, but then that's what angels do. On our many holidays around Britain we have accepted the hospitality of all types equally. How many tourists have stopped over at a B&B in Coalville for example? There's absolutely nothing for tourists in Coalville, although they do at least have B&B, and when we were there there was little for the residents either once the mines had closed. Since we visited even the discovery museum at the old Snibston colliery has closed although we did get to go there years ago. The one thing that does abound in many places though is hospitality, provided that you are willing to accept it as given. (Surely of all places that is true in Liverpool.) We are so willing. Our backgrounds make that so and those can never change. When we married my angel spent ages in the bathroom because it was the first time that she had lived in a home with running hot water. Does having running hot water make us Tories then? I didn't know that things had got quite that bad. We've never actually voted for them. Around here they just get in regardless of who we vote for, so why should we? That's why electoral reform is so important to us, to give us a voice in politics. We live in Kent because my company moved here from the City of London decades ago and I came with it. Neither of us were born here though. Life's a lottery and that's the truth of it, but there would be no hope at all in the world without that thought.
 

bazz cargo

Retired Supervisor
I could use the same argument we use to support arms dealing, if I don't sell em drugs then someone else will. But no. We have a drug problem in this country, and around the world, because of money. Take away the profits and it will all but disappear. Portugal has made a damn good effort. When we leave the EU and do not put up a border in Ireland, guess where the dealers will ship it? We want to fix this problem then hit them in the profits.
Well, not ten, but how about this. At present thousands of containers daily pass through British ports to and from the EU. There was a documentary recently where customs had stopped one with forty tons of cannabis and amphetamine. If the dealers can afford to lose that there must be a lot of others getting through. So, stop the traffic and you kill the drug trade dead; not only will it be difficult to smuggle, no one would have the money to buy it if it got here.
Interesting. Not being in the Euro currency has proven to be one of our finest mistakes. Will it disappear? Maybe. I expect the world will be using the Facebook Dollar in the future. There is something to look forward to, a non-elected power running the world's financial system.
1x10...the euro
I know you are not racist. Is there another reason behind your anti-EU stance?
France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Austria, Belgium ...
I have as little say in what the government do. I can only stand by and tut.
It's people over 50...honky...middle rich who will pick the next PM...members like Bazz Cargo,Olly Burke,Just Rob now have the power
And Sun readers. And Mail readers. Only they seem to have the Cult of Nigel to rave about now.
all private school kids start out communist and after they reach 40 they become raving Tories....
 

escorial

WF Veterans
I went to benidorm before the euro and when I got of that aeroplane..I lived like a king for two weeks an the euro took that away from me...
 

bazz cargo

Retired Supervisor
When the referendum result was announced, Spreadsheet Phil and Mark Carney, shifted the interest rates, pumped billions of QE into the system and narrowly avoided a recession. The GBP dropped from 178 to 131 against the Dollar. Since then it is dropping a little every-time we move closer to Brexit. Massive betting is waiting for the event. I have no idea how low it will go. Cherish your memories.
I went to benidorm before the euro and when I got of that aeroplane..I lived like a king for two weeks an the euro took that away from me...
 
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PiP

Staff member
Co-Owner
Sigh... I don't know which is worse: Leaving the EU or Boris the buffoon as Prime Minister. If that is the best candidate the conservatives have to offer, God help us. And as for JC, it does not even bear thinking about.... bring back Margaret Thatcher *ducks*
 

bazz cargo

Retired Supervisor
Considering how many of these weasels have been putting words in her mouth I think her return would be entertaining.
Alexander Johnson will last about three weeks before an election will be called. Whack-a-mole on the Titanic.
Sigh... I don't know which is worse: Leaving the EU or Boris the buffoon as Prime Minister. If that is the best candidate the conservatives have to offer, God help us. And as for JC, it does not even bear thinking about.... bring back Margaret Thatcher *ducks*

Capitalism is survival of the fittest. You can work solo or as a team. I am by nature a solo git but I recognise the need for some team playing.
Living in a boom or bust economy is fundermental to captalism....greed is the future and the past
 

Olly Buckle

Mentor
Patron
I always remember someone looking after a girl who had used 'It's the survival of the fittest' as a justification for some deviousness and saying 'What makes her think she's fit to survive?'. It is one of those circular things, the fittest survive, fittest for what? fittest for survival. Plus it is a misconception applying it to individuals, it is a species thing. What qualities do make us fitter to survive as a species? At the moment I would put my money on bacteria and blue-green algae.
 

escorial

WF Veterans
Sigh... I don't know which is worse: Leaving the EU or Boris the buffoon as Prime Minister. If that is the best candidate the conservatives have to offer, God help us. And as for JC, it does not even bear thinking about.... bring back Margaret Thatcher *ducks*

he never turned up on the TV debate an one of the losing contenders has supported him..why because he thinks he will do a good job our keep himself on the winners side and stay on the gravy train...for me the Tories are bankrupt and are looking to a populist celeb..if costing the tax payer 40 million quid over a bridge never built is were they put their faith in a man running the country their judgement is poor...I reckon
 
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escorial

WF Veterans
the abb will be hoping to challenge their rival after the cut tonight on TV...Boris can and does deflect so much that pisses others of but what they may not get is that he has no shame..very trumpish..they all think they are more intelligent and capable then he is but it's just ego..seems Florence of Arabia is making headway an he fits the stereotype..Eton boy...
 

JustRob

FoWF
WF Veterans
Your profile is similar to esther mcvey

Do you mean me? I don't see the similarity. She became a director in her father's business while my father worked nights as a porter at London Bridge station unloading the fish for Billingsgate Market from the trains. He also loaded the early morning newspaper trains with the daily papers from Fleet Street. Hardly a family business then.

I know you are not racist. Is there another reason behind your anti-EU stance?

I wouldn't know what race to represent if I were. My DNA indicates that my family origins were in Germany and my father was born a south bank Cockney in London. My own birthday is United Nations day, so that's the only flag that I would salute as the UN was created for the sake of the futures of wartime children like me everywhere. The EU is exclusive but the UN isn't. No deal with the EU is effectively the same deal with every country, not exclusion but equitable inclusion. Boris has the right idea, to work from a no deal basis. If the EU won't agree to a deal then there can be no deal because of their attitude. The blame for that can't just lie with our government any more than the UK could be blamed for border controls imposed by the EU at the Irish border because we didn't have a trade deal with them. There's talk of the UK breaking the Good Friday agreement, but actually it will be the EU putting up the barriers and closing that border, not us, if it happens. Boris would just leave the border open and arrange a more reasonable system for dealing with the trade issue if the EU would only agree to it. Our main concern with the Irish border is that even now it is an easy route into the UK used by illegal immigrants. Instead of risking their lives in tiny dinghies crossing the channel the smart ones go to Ireland and cross the open border from the EU there. If immigration was a key factor in the Brexit referendum then that's something to be clamped down on anyway even if we don't leave.

Anyway, my angel and I are just setting the record straight with the government by voting for Brexit. We were never asked whether we wanted to join the EU, so obviously when we were asked whether we wanted to leave our attitude was "leave what? Something that we never joined in spirit?" For our own purposes we still measure things in miles, yards, feet and inches and pounds and ounces much as many of our generation do. I still think of temperatures in Fahrenheit and convert to that as well. The only referendum so far as I recollect was about joining the Common Market, which was just a trade deal without all the trappings of a federal Europe. The decisions not to adopt the Euro nor join the Schengen Area weren't made via a referendum either, not that we disagreed with them. How about the proposal to use Central European time right across Europe to make life a bit easier for businesses? How's that debate going lately? Wouldn't that be the last straw, the country that originated the concept of universal time not being able to use its own time zone, the one that started it all, GMT? Who cares about what the sun's doing in the sky when European unity is at stake? Actually we do, especially since we live so close to the meridian line at the very heart of the GMT zone. My DNA may be German and I may have learned their language at school but that doesn't mean that I have to pretend that I live there regardless of where the sun is.

No, Boris is right, that we should start with a clean slate and decide where we want to position ourselves in the world, just as we always have. It's in our nature. If that means temporarily not having a trade deal with the EU then that's a joint problem, not one-sided. Equally that doesn't mean that Trump can muscle in with his idea of a deal. We feel much the same about the USA, especially considering who they have chosen to represent them. A long time ago an American friend drew a parallel between Boris and Trump and I seriously disagreed with him. Trump is a one trick pony in comparison to Boris to my mind. Oh yes, by the way, there's still something called the Commonwealth around and it has sensible countries like Canada and Australia and us in it. Back in my childhood we were taught that that organisation was central to our existence, not any European alliance or the UN or NATO. Perhaps Ireland should join that to solve the border problem.
 
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