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Authentic communication (1 Viewer)

rogerblingham

Senior Member
Till now, you have been told that the communication happens between two minds by establishing a medium for transferring the information. Normally, distorted partial information is conveyed to the receiving end. Major portion of the information is never reaches the other end. As my research indicates, there are two reasons for this. First reason is that the information to be transferred is encapsulated in a form that is compatible with the medium where it loses the strength. The second being the two minds at both the ends of the communication channel working at two different levels. However, in general, faults are never accepted by the respective minds and they find excuses in the information or channel.

Actually, if I can achieve the communication through non verbal means such as direct transfer of feelings where models are not involved, you perhaps can understand and experience it in proper sense without judging, caveat being your feeling system bypassing the belief system. When I am forced to pass the information through the use articles or books or audio-visual means, I will be restricted to use words or images as the only communication medium. What I am putting across to you are the feelings originating beyond my belief system filtered and contaminated through my belief system which flows out as words and sketches. If you understand it properly, I am attempting to pass on my feelings through the medium of words and images making an attempt to reach your feeling system for achieving proper communication. The reverse does happen when you read. The words and images reach your belief system and get filtered there. At this point two things happen. One of the things being your belief system finds it alien to itself and rejects the whole thing as trash. If this happens I have no way of communicating with you further or we may have a conflict on hand. Other thing being your belief system finds it as something new and let it pass into feeling system. Still, it will say ‘I do not understand what is coming in’. If the feeling system gets interested it can lead you to some experience which you cannot describe using words. Only thing you can do is to feel it and pass it back to belief system. The belief system still may find the information as useless and discard it totally. On the other hand if the feeling system finds it useful, it can result in changing the belief system itself. Ah..that is life changing experience for better or worse.

Does the result matter?
 
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Plasticweld

Senior Member
Reading this I somehow feel that if you started out with a personal example to frame your point it would be more effective and let the reader identify with you. You are trying to explain a complex issue, you use the words " I" and "My" so why not take it a step further, then the last statement "Does the result matter." will have more impact.
 

John Oberon

Senior Member
Roger, this is a load of gibberish. Why don't you try writing a story? Write about something interesting that happened to you or someone else. I think that would help bring some sense to your writing. I really don't think yours is a mind meant for abstract thought.
 

Cran

Da Boss Emeritus
Patron
I have a difficulty associated with the word flow or communication. It is about authentic communication happening between two of us, irrespective of how many people read this.

I know I have an uphill task in explaining the difficulty. However, it is a good idea to make an effort. It does not matter whether the attempt fails or succeeds. Some movement somewhere is bound to happen.
OK. I'll take this at face value, and consider what follows accordingly.


Till now, you have been told that the communication happens between two minds by establishing a medium for transferring the information. Normally, distorted partial information is conveyed to the receiving end. Major portion of the information is never reaches the other end.

As my research indicates, there are two reasons for this.

First reason is that the information to be transferred is encapsulated in a form that is compatible with the medium where it loses the strength. The second being the two minds at both the ends of the communication channel working at two different levels. However, in general, faults are never accepted by the respective minds and they find excuses in the information or channel.
It would be a good idea to add references to your sources of research to support the statements you have based on that research.


Like all other minds, including mine, your mind is an expert in constructing models and in fact your entire world is simply a model inside your mind. Hence, we will need a model to understand what is going on because you are using your mind to understand what is being put across to you.

Here is a bare bone model of what really is happening.

You as a mind take all information coming in front you and construct a model out of the information. Then your mind will try to match the constructed model with the model already built with your life experience which can also be called as your belief system. This in effect is an attempt to absorb the incoming model as new learning aka experience.

If the incoming model is conforming with the belief system, then it will pass the information to the feeling system else it will reject the information totally. The rejection often leads to conflicts. The feeling system evaluates the information and proceeds to incorporate it into the belief system thereby changing the mental model which results in learning. If partial incompatibilities are noticed at the feeling system level, they will be discarded.

Using this model let me explain what I really want to convey.

Actually, if I can achieve the communication through non verbal means such as direct transfer of feelings where models are not involved, you perhaps can understand and experience it in proper sense without judging, caveat being your feeling system bypassing the belief system.

When I am forced to pass the information through the use articles or books or audio-visual means, I will be restricted to use words or images as the only communication medium. What I am putting across to you are the feelings originating beyond my belief system filtered and contaminated through my belief system which flows out as words and sketches.

If you understand it properly, I am attempting to pass on my feelings through the medium of words and images making an attempt to reach your feeling system for achieving proper communication.

The reverse does happen when you read. The words and images reach your belief system and get filtered there.

At this point [comma](one of) two things happen.

One of the things being your belief system finds it alien to itself and rejects the whole thing as trash. If this happens I have no way of communicating with you further or we may have a conflict on hand.

Other thing being your belief system finds it as something new and let it pass into feeling system. Still, it will say ‘I do not understand what is coming in’. If the feeling system gets interested it can lead you to some experience which you cannot describe using words. Only thing you can do is to feel it and pass it back to belief system. The belief system still may find the information as useless and discard it totally. On the other hand if the feeling system finds it useful, it can result in changing the belief system itself. Ah..that is life changing experience for better or worse.

Does the result matter?
The answer, I believe, is, "Yes, the result matters."

And good for you for making the effort.

This comes across to me as a student essay on a college-level or freshman university topic. Yes, the writing shows some difficulty with word flow. And yes, some will simply reject what you are trying to convey for reasons not worth exploring here.

References are important for a piece like this. You should be able to direct your reader to the sources of your research.
 

rogerblingham

Senior Member
Roger, this is a load of gibberish. Why don't you try writing a story? Write about something interesting that happened to you or someone else. I think that would help bring some sense to your writing. I really don't think yours is a mind meant for abstract thought.

Thanks a lot for some of the appreciative words. In fact, if someone with educated and organized thinking like you had understood the intent of this piece, it would have been a great news to me. While your suggestions are welcome, we seem to have unbridgeable gaps in thinking. That I hope is fine.
 

rogerblingham

Senior Member
This comes across to me as a student essay on a college-level or freshman university topic. Yes, the writing shows some difficulty with word flow. And yes, some will simply reject what you are trying to convey for reasons not worth exploring here.

References are important for a piece like this. You should be able to direct your reader to the sources of your research.

Cran, thanks a lot for your advice. I will try my best to improve on this.
 

Olly Buckle

Mentor
Patron
Major portion of the information is never reaches the other end.
Sentences such as this do not help, whilst I can see that you mean that 'a major portion of the information is lost in the process of transmission' it requires a degree of intuition. Catching such grammatical errors can be difficult when you are close up to the information, reading aloud will often make you stumble at such places, a useful clue.

I think you need to distinguish between the model and the ontological reality more clearly, intuitively most people think their beliefs are reality.

The same sort of thing goes for the 'mind' accepting information and passing it to the 'feeling system', the terms are undefined and open to misinterpretation. I am unsure how useful such a fragmented model is in describing such a unified system as the human mind; Freud did it with id, ego and superego and started a generation of confused thinking.

separating the processes of communication that occur is a different matter as they take place quite separately.

Does this help at all?

When the individual perceives an experience they first convert the ontological reality into a model which is acceptable, in that it conforms to their previous perceptions and the models built to accommodate them. In order to convey it to another person this model must then be converted into a verbal form, then the verbal form must be transmitted. The other person then receives the verbal form, forms an understanding of it, and transforms it into a model of their own. There are several stages here; perception, conversion to a model, conversion to a verbal model, transmission of the words, reception of the words, a verbal model, conversion to a mental model, perception; during any one of these stages there can be misunderstanding or partial understanding; given also the vague definition of most of the words used in the verbal stages it is a bit amazing we ever get anything across.

There is a man called David Crystal who writes about grammar and communication whom you might find interesting, he has written a number of books.
 

rogerblingham

Senior Member
Sentences such as this do not help, whilst I can see that you mean that 'a major portion of the information is lost in the process of transmission' it requires a degree of intuition. Catching such grammatical errors can be difficult when you are close up to the information, reading aloud will often make you stumble at such places, a useful clue.

Thanks for catching this error.

Beyond this, I appreciate you for the constructive suggestions. There are just too many. I will try and implement those.

Just a note about overall reactions to this article.

I hope everyone will appreciate the fact that the article is just an opinion of mine which need not resonate with others. Even under those circumstances in a forum like this suggestions towards improving the presentations can help the writer. I am open to extreme criticism so long as focus is on what is written.
 
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