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  1. #101
    Baron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cran View Post
    No arguments in my post - simply reminders ...
    eg:

    I guess tomorrow hasn't come yet ...

    As for the interpretation of consensus, Baron -
    it's your deal, do what works for you ...
    if you can't handle questions or criticisms, say so,
    and I'll butt out ... again ...
    Your questions and criticisms are bordering on obsessive. What's gained if we have no challenge?

  2. #102
    Member Ilasir Maroa's Avatar
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    Fighting is not productive. Go write a therapy poem on your problems and then we can critique it to see who has the most valid argument...=D>
    "A plot-driven story is anything with a plot." ~BS
    All lines are arbitrary; otherwise, we wouldn't have to draw them. ~Nicholas Vesiri

  3. #103
    Baron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa View Post
    Fighting is not productive. Go write a therapy poem on your problems and then we can critique it to see who has the most valid argument...=D>
    I have no desire to stop doing things that are creative, productive and helpful to those who just want to get on with it so perhaps we'll just have to do the next challenge ourselves again back in the poetry forum.

  4. #104
    Patron Selorian's Avatar
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    If the consensus is to work with tweaking the judging system with Shawn's proposals, then we need to ask him to do a revision to submit for approval and eventual implementation. We can still do a new challenge now that the holidays are about over using the original for this round and implement the new one for the next challenge.

    And I apologize for the outburst. I don't need to be reminded of what was said by a long list of quotes without any input from the one posting them. And, believe it or not, I do have a life outside of WF. With the holidays and the recent downtime of the site, it just pushed the wrong buttons to see that being the first new reply in this thread.
    Utopia can only exist in a violent societyHidden Content

  5. #105
    Baron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selorian View Post
    If the consensus is to work with tweaking the judging system with Shawn's proposals, then we need to ask him to do a revision to submit for approval and eventual implementation. We can still do a new challenge now that the holidays are about over using the original for this round and implement the new one for the next challenge.

    And I apologize for the outburst. I don't need to be reminded of what was said by a long list of quotes without any input from the one posting them. And, believe it or not, I do have a life outside of WF. With the holidays and the recent downtime of the site, it just pushed the wrong buttons to see that being the first new reply in this thread.
    This sounds like the most reasonable way forward. I fully understand the pressures of the holiday and I know that the downtime hasn't helped anything. A vote of thanks and wishes for a good and prosperous new year to all the admin on WF.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Selorian View Post
    If the consensus is to work with tweaking the judging system with Shawn's proposals, then we need to ask him to do a revision to submit for approval and eventual implementation. We can still do a new challenge now that the holidays are about over using the original for this round and implement the new one for the next challenge.
    I'm pleased that you see fit to go ahead with the challenges, Selorian ...
    because I don't need to remind you by quoting the sources,
    of the intention of the discussion, and the clear agreement
    that the challenges should not be determined by it ...

    I also don't need to remind you that Baron's first summary of the consensus
    in this discussion was to tweak Selorian's proposals for the assessment guide ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron
    I have no desire to stop doing things that are creative, productive and helpful to those who just want to get on with it so perhaps we'll just have to do the next challenge ourselves again back in the poetry forum.
    Then why bring idle and childish threats that undermine Selorian's (and everybody else's) efforts here?
    The challenge was brought to LM, in spite of the grief caused by earlier discussions about it,
    and it was what you said you wanted.
    Selorian put in a lot of work to get it up and running ...
    some of us are interested in making the challenge the best it can be in the long term;
    hence we have discussions about how best to achieve that ...
    egos and emotions don't help ... get over it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Selorian
    And I apologize for the outburst. I don't need to be reminded of what was said by a long list of quotes without any input from the one posting them. And, believe it or not, I do have a life outside of WF. With the holidays and the recent downtime of the site, it just pushed the wrong buttons to see that being the first new reply in this thread.
    I understand ...
    just as it pushed my buttons to see that you ignore anything uncomfortable,
    like making good on your word ...
    the "long list" of two quotes were my own words, and needed no further input,
    because they weren't addressed the first time ...

    but hey, let's not get obsessive about it ...
    Last edited by Cran; January 1st, 2008 at 09:33 PM. Reason: typos
    "I don't know ... I'm making it up as I go ..." - Dr I Jones

    Nature abhors perfection - cats abhor a vacuum!

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  7. #107
    Baron
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    Cran, I really can't be bothered with all of this. Selorian said that there may be no challenge because of the persistent debate of one person. I prefer action to words and am really only interested in seeing the challenge go ahead. I think that those who have been involved in judging, like Shawn, who also knows a little about poetry, are in the best postion to make the tweaks. The fact that you offer suggestions does not mean that they have to be accepted. I've been happy to hand this thing over and do not want to see it scuppered, as almost happened before, because of confontations with the admin.

  8. #108
    Go for it ...

    I know you can read; it's all there in the thread -
    I guess there's a reason why you two have been deliberately obtuse,
    and ignoring the actual discussion with these silly little tantrums,
    and shooting yourselves in the foot with irrelevencies
    that only serve to derail and delay the process ...

    I really don't understand your problems, only that they interfere
    with those who really want to achieve something -

    I'll leave you then, with this brief recap:

    1. you have a poetry challenge framework and process which should be independent of any discussions or other forum activities;

    2. you have the poetry assessment guide that was used for the last challenge - which Selorian had selected, and which Baron and Ilasir believed was workable with minor changes ... PeteC had offered to contribute towards that, but has been ignored by everybody that mattered;

    3. you have the poetry assessment guide which Shawn admitted to throwing together, and "wasn't serious about", but had offered as an illustration of what shape an assessment guide can take, which Baron seems to prefer, and which Ilasir thought addressed some of the issues raised, over the 10 section/100 point version;

    4. you have a separate issue regarding what to do about the inclusion of a popular vote in the rules/guidelines - whether to remove that clause, or amend it to cover circumstances such as that which occurred (the why was not important nor relevent to the issue - only the what...)

    5. you have a separate issue about the challenge thread being used as a platform for discussion, in contravention to the rules/guidelines ...

    good luck to you ...
    "I don't know ... I'm making it up as I go ..." - Dr I Jones

    Nature abhors perfection - cats abhor a vacuum!

    "Faith can move mountains - she's a big girl!" (unknown/graffiti)

    If I act like I own the place, it's because I did.





  9. #109
    Member Ilasir Maroa's Avatar
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    I think Cran has summed this up nicely. These are and can best be treated as seperate issues.

    1. I think the challenge should continue on, this discussion finished or not, at the earliest convience to the admins.

    2/3. The main issue here is to decide whether or not we will amend the current format, or move to a new one. This can be done without going through long proposals for the amendments or the new system. it would probably be quicker that way.

    4. Whichever way we decide to move on the judging rubric, dealing with the vote is a seperate issue. Looking at the number if entrants in the first challenge, I think it would be safe to remove this as part of the contest. Even in the old competitions, it wsn't really a problem.

    5. If there are still people discussing this in the challenge thread, they need to be clearly told to move here, or they will be ignored.(Or whatever other solution the admins feel is necessary).
    "A plot-driven story is anything with a plot." ~BS
    All lines are arbitrary; otherwise, we wouldn't have to draw them. ~Nicholas Vesiri

  10. #110
    Patron Selorian's Avatar
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    Cran, you were the one that said 'no problem, no rush', so I don't know how not answering the next day wasn't keeping my word.

    Also, it was you that started the public discussion about the judging before I even had a chance to ask the judges what they thought of the system. I think you were simply itching to get it changed because yours wasn't accepted right off.

    I don't have time for this after each contest. As of now, I'm not going to run these any longer. Maybe another member of staff has the time and the desire to do it.
    Utopia can only exist in a violent societyHidden Content

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