Let's talk about Gender Stereotypes... - Page 10


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Thread: Let's talk about Gender Stereotypes...

  1. #91
    Do you think in order to avoid gender stereotyping, it's best not to give the character a lot of obvious male or female character traits?

    For example, in a story of mine, there is a court judge supporting character who I origiinally wrote as male, but in rewrites, decided to change the character to female. But all I changed in the writing was her when referring to her in the third person, I changed 'he' to 'she'. Everything else I kept the same in the character.

    But was this bad and I should give her different personality traits if I have decided to change the character's gender?

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Do you think in order to avoid gender stereotyping, it's best not to give the character a lot of obvious male or female character traits?

    For example, in a story of mine, there is a court judge supporting character who I origiinally wrote as male, but in rewrites, decided to change the character to female. But all I changed in the writing was her when referring to her in the third person, I changed 'he' to 'she'. Everything else I kept the same in the character.

    But was this bad and I should give her different personality traits if I have decided to change the character's gender?
    Write people, not caricatures. It's not hard - yet everyone seems to try to make it so.

    Observe, meet all sorts of people, listen to how they speak, find insight and inspiration in their personalities. Write that.

    Don't write June Cleaver, or Uncle Tom, or Kato, or Paddy, or Lord Snooty. Create characters with depth. Make them unique. Breathe life into them and write that.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by clark View Post
    JJBuchholz --it should, I would think, have been obvious to you from occasional non-standard (NS) usage and questionable word choice that English is not Ritu's first language. In India, a staggering percentage of women are raped as very young girls and women are second-class citizens in too many ways to enumerate here, suffice that 95% of rape cases are solved, but only 23% result in conviction.ttps://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/95-of-rape-cases-solved . You seriously misread this statement by Ritu:



    He is saying that in many countries, certainly India, boys are heavily favored and valued. Girls are not . And the terms of their upbringing encourage this divisiveness. Yes, children are taught that boys are privileged, girls are not; boys get opportunities, girls do not; boys are studs, girls are sexual objects. Those roles are the 'stereotypes' he is trying to indicate. Over 70% of rape cases are perpetrated by family members or close family friends, which gives you some indication that sexual exploitation is deeply engrained. You got your knickers in a severe knot, declaring that "[you] don't know anyone (friends/colleagues/family) that was 'conditioned' in their upbringing to treat women unfairly." All that tells us is that you, your family, friends, and colleagues are blessed to have been raised in circumstances such that you can make that claim. I don't know that your anecdotal approach will stand up against Ritu's lifetime in that kind of conditioning , or the trailer-trucks full of evidence from Indian courts, academic studies, and social programs that confirm his view, not yours . . .but let that go. Ritu says that some progress is being made, but "equality" has not yet been achieved. The implication in his statements--"the tendency to get away from that is getting better" [the referent for "that" is 'gender conditioning' or role playing]--and that gender inequality has "not yet been completely eradicated"--is that victory is imminent, which is a gross exaggeration. The surface has barely been pencil-marked in India, never mind scratched. I suspect that Ritu is not aware of the predictive nuances that cling to "yet" and "completely" in his wording.

    All he is saying is that full and open non-sexist societal attitudes towards both genders is a world goal, but that certain parts of the world are going to have a much tougher time shedding an old and clinging skin of low regard for females than are others. Of course you and yours have not heard of anyone being raised to "treat women unfairly": you live in Canada for fuck's sake--a country where a reported case of a woman earning less than a man for the same work makes the National News!

    You've thrown a mantle of righteous indignation over your shoulders, proclaiming huffily that many people need to get out of their tiny caves and see the world for what it really is (I'll just bet you'll be there to guide them, eh?), but you cross the Writing Forums line into Restricted territory when you presume to tell Ritu by inclusion that he sees the world through "thick dirty glasses" and that he won't "own up to [his] personal problems" and then, a direct personal insult: "Blaming another gender or race and then trying to change the process because you couldn't make something of yourself . . . ". Wow! I wouldn't say that to a man I'd known for twenty years, never mind a man I've never met and do not know at all. There is no place on the Writing Forums public boards for remarks like that. If your knickers have cinched up til your ears are ringing and you want to get personal. . . send a PRIVATE MESSAGE.

    [PS--how you came to your interpretation of Ritu's words, is beyond me. I have read and re-read his posts and find nothing in his words that warrant the negative construction you find there]
    Thanks a lot for understanding and conveying my point of view. I am a female by the way.

    Regards

    Ritu

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Do you think in order to avoid gender stereotyping, it's best not to give the character a lot of obvious male or female character traits?

    For example, in a story of mine, there is a court judge supporting character who I origiinally wrote as male, but in rewrites, decided to change the character to female. But all I changed in the writing was her when referring to her in the third person, I changed 'he' to 'she'. Everything else I kept the same in the character.

    But was this bad and I should give her different personality traits if I have decided to change the character's gender?
    To change the character's gender, if all you changed was the pronoun then I would question how well developed the character was in the first place. It's not that gender is the only aspect to a character, far from it, but it's still a fundamental part. Of course, this really depends on how important the character is. If they only have a few 'lines', appear in just one or two scenes, then it may not matter, but in that case they're barely a character at all.

    Look at it another way, imagine if I said "In a story of mine, there is a supporting character who is a woman in her twenties. I originally wrote her as a woman in her eighties, but in rewrites, decided to make her younger. But all I changed was her date of birth, everything else I kept the same".

    Just like gender, age factors into lots of areas of life. Consider something as simple as the way somebody walks. Old people tend to walk quite differently to young people. Likewise, women tend to walk quite differently to men. Suddenly you need to use a word like 'hobbled' or 'shuffled' for the old person instead of 'strode' for the young person. Women may 'sway' while men almost never do. And this is just walking. There are endless other actions and behaviors that are influenced by gender, just like age.

    On the other hand, I do believe in the 'write the character first' approach. How to write a lesbian? Write a character with hopes, dreams, hobbies, interests, likes, dislikes, etc. Then, once you have done all that, add '...and she's a lesbian'. There, you just wrote one. You should do this for any 'type' of character. Ethnic minorities? Write a character with hopes, dreams, hobbies, interests, likes, dislikes, etc. Then, once you have done all that, add '...and they are Hispanic'. Congrats, you just wrote a compelling Hispanic character! But, of course, there is a little more to it than that. Once you identify the character as being [type] you do need to evaluate how this would impact the other stuff.
    Deactivated due to staff trolling. Bye!

  5. #95
    Oh okay thanks, I can do that. Well in this case, the court judge's role is to sit behind her desk in court and make decisions in the case. She doesn't have a role beyond that, so I guess for such a supporting character, then perhaps not giving her a lot of character depth is okay, compared to a more major character?

  6. #96
    There are ninety-nine genders, and every time someone complains about it, we add another one.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalGreen View Post
    There are ninety-nine genders
    The reason for this is because people can't face reality and create another 'gender' to hide behind and pretend to be a part of
    to escape the real world. I know I'm going to take flak for this, but there are only two genders. Always have been, always
    will be. You're either born a boy or a girl, and to suggest otherwise would be to further the fantasy world that too many people
    live in. No one on this planet has the power to create something like an additional gender that doesn't exist. The two genders
    were given to us by the Great Maker so that we could build a society and move forward. Add to the fact that the school system
    nowadays have kids so utterly spun that they don't know which way is up, as well as the over-reliance on technology, and it's
    no wonder the world is in the state that it's in currently.

    I could just as easily start identifying as a helicopter, and have that added as a 'gender' so to speak. This would entail that I
    have given up on any tangible reality, and would be hiding in a realm of my own making, as others have done. In order not
    to 'offend' me, 'helicopter' would be added as a gender, and I would be able to live my delusion thanks to a system that has
    not only lost it's way, but it also responsible for the downfall of society as a whole.

    The world is not moving in the right direction whatsoever.

    -JJB
    ​"Strong convictions precede great actions....."

    Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content

  8. #98
    I suspect this thread has run it's course, and is starting to run far beyond it's original scope. I'm closing it pending contemplation of that action by supervisors.

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