Am I just being a language snob? - Page 2


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Thread: Am I just being a language snob?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyAz View Post
    Which leads us to the obvious conclusion that 'assumption' is snobbery in some instances. I prefer to 'assume' the best until proven wrong, rather than 'assume' the worse until proven wrong. I can't assume anything from ONE post and I certainly can't assume anything from Facebook posts, unless I have more context. So in isolation, I see that as a good poem. I bet if that was posted in the poetry section of this forum, not a single person would question the grammar. They'd 'assume' it was done for musical purposes.
    In some instances, sure. There is absolutely a part of me that is an insufferable language snob; my wife has brought it up many times. Add to that the ways in which experience (which I suppose feeds into gut instinct) has often shown it to be a genuine deficit on their part, which I think it's better on balance to remain aware of than deny. I just try not to weaponise it or make people feel bad for not having the exact same body of standards or level of interest in the subject I do; I'm grateful for this one somewhat minor ability I have, and undoubtedly there are skillsets these others possess that I can only dream about. Also, I don't want people to dislike me so I mostly try and keep schtum ... mostly

    Other times, I'm pleasantly surprised.


    Hidden Content Monthly Fiction Challenge


    The first cut don't hurt at all
    The second only makes you wonder
    The third will have you on your knee
    s
    - Propaganda, "Duel"

    *

    Is this fire, or is this mask?
    It's the Mantasy!
    - Anonymous








  2. #12
    Snobs in anything just tend to massage their own ego but when so why not break all the rules then make up your own and break them to...
    The only one who can heal you is you.




  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by vranger View Post
    I have no sympathy for that. I was a straight A student who was assaulted twice in school for that reason alone. I didn't decide to ignore my studies because it wasn't popular with idiots. However, the second time it happened, I hit the bully who assaulted me upside the head with a book bag. He went down and the "fight" was over. I never had a problem after that. Plus, I never saw that kid again. I'm sure I didn't kill him. The news would have gotten around and I'd have heard. But he stayed the hell out of my line of sight for the next two years running.

    The focus here wasn't on an individual whose education failed to elevate them to the level of standard language usage, it's on our diminishing ability to do that. Standardized test scores, not just in English, but all subjects, have been in decline since the late 60s. The list of reasons for that is long. Students, parents, the educational system, and social engineering all bear part of the shame.
    There but for the grace of God go I, eh?

    This whole thread is predicated on the assumption this person isn't 'a' because we need to attribute 'b' to them.

    Yeah, it's snobbery.
    Craft / Draft / Graft And Write To Entertain.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcharles View Post
    In some instances, sure. There is absolutely a part of me that is an insufferable language snob; my wife has brought it up many times. Add to that the ways in which experience (which I suppose feeds into gut instinct) has often shown it to be a genuine deficit on their part, which I think it's better on balance to remain aware of than deny. I just try not to weaponise it or make people feel bad for not having the exact same body of standards or level of interest in the subject I do; I'm grateful for this one somewhat minor ability I have, and undoubtedly there are skillsets these others possess that I can only dream about. Also, I don't want people to dislike me so I mostly try and keep schtum ... mostly

    Other times, I'm pleasantly surprised.
    Not assuming isn't denial. It's taking a neutral position in order not to look a fool in the future. For all we know this guy/gal might be a genius. It's not that you can't judge people, it's that you shouldn't based on an assumption. I need to see their academic work first, not a single Facebook post. To assume based on one post, on Facebook, is indeed snobbery.

    I aint no snob so will always fall on the side of those without a voice in the debate.
    Craft / Draft / Graft And Write To Entertain.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyAz View Post
    There but for the grace of God go I, eh?
    This whole thread is predicated on the assumption this person isn't 'a' because we need to attribute 'b' to them. Yeah, it's snobbery.
    It's not snobbery to know that you know more about something than someone else. It's fact. People are created equal. After that, it's open season. Individuals make their own choices, and not all of those choices are good ones.

    I don't look down on someone who lacks facility with the English language. People rise to levels of worth in many ways. However, I sure as hell wouldn't pick them to write my ad copy or a business letter, and I won't read their fiction. I'm entitled to decide on my own standards for my own experiences. However, I'm happy to have positive regard for an alternate talent they exhibit.

    If I see a published work with an egregious vocabulary or grammar error in the first paragraph, and that's more common than you may think, I'm done with it, and I'm done with that author. Skill and professional standards matter. Would you extend the same sympathy to a mechanic who changes your tires and fails to tighten the lugs? I think not.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by vranger View Post
    It's not snobbery to know that you know more about something than someone else. It's fact. People are created equal. After that, it's open season. Individuals make their own choices, and not all of those choices are good ones.

    I don't look down on someone who lacks facility with the English language. People rise to levels of worth in many ways. However, I sure as hell wouldn't pick them to write my ad copy or a business letter, and I won't read their fiction. I'm entitled to decide on my own standards for my own experiences. However, I'm happy to have positive regard for an alternate talent they exhibit.

    If I see a published work with an egregious vocabulary or grammar error in the first paragraph, and that's more common than you may think, I'm done with it, and I'm done with that author. Skill and professional standards matter. Would you extend the same sympathy to a mechanic who changes your tires and fails to tighten the lugs? I think not.
    But you don't know the ability of this poster. You're assuming based on one Facebook post. When I show 'Fag and a Can' to people, I'm certain, without context, they 'assume' my ability is at that level. They don't know I wrote it in that way deliberately. It's the same here. Assumption is snobbery and people here are assuming. If you've got a posh voice, should I assume a particular mindset? No.

    Got me sen a fag and a can
    Two black eyes cos I’m the man
    Tattoos and dots on me face
    Scars and jeans to hide me grace
    Craft / Draft / Graft And Write To Entertain.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyAz View Post
    Not assuming isn't denial. It's taking a neutral position in order not to look a fool in the future. For all we know this guy/gal might be a genius. It's not that you can't judge people, it's that you shouldn't based on an assumption. I need to see their academic work first, not a single Facebook post. To assume based on one post, on Facebook, is indeed snobbery.

    I aint no snob so will always fall on the side of those without a voice in the debate.
    You can be a genius and still have bad grammar though.


    Hidden Content Monthly Fiction Challenge


    The first cut don't hurt at all
    The second only makes you wonder
    The third will have you on your knee
    s
    - Propaganda, "Duel"

    *

    Is this fire, or is this mask?
    It's the Mantasy!
    - Anonymous








  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcharles View Post
    You can be a genius and still have bad grammar though.
    LOL. Well, of course, but this is about whether the person we're discussing in her/his absence, has in fact written it that way deliberately. Obviously, the 'genius' I would mean in that context, is a writing genius.
    Craft / Draft / Graft And Write To Entertain.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyAz View Post
    Assumption is snobbery
    In this instance, the language does seem quite like street slang, so it looks intentional and fits that context as I understand it. So, if I saw this written and it fit with the tone and whatnot, I'd absolutely let it sit; it would work well for me. However, what is actually being asked? Is the OP being a snob for caring about grammar in general or about this bit of grammar? What are we assuming is being asked here?

    If it's just this bit, I would say there are stylistic things that they may not be aware of that can be let slide in service of voice. If it's grammar in general, I would say (when asked) there are many instances of grammar that fall short of either established norms or workable vernacular to the point where you are left with the choice of believing it to be a mistake or overlooking what you know, sort of selling your own abilities short. That's my process and it works for me. Bear in mind that this is, for me, an internal train of thought concerning a specific request. What I would actually tell people depends on what people want to know.


    Hidden Content Monthly Fiction Challenge


    The first cut don't hurt at all
    The second only makes you wonder
    The third will have you on your knee
    s
    - Propaganda, "Duel"

    *

    Is this fire, or is this mask?
    It's the Mantasy!
    - Anonymous








  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyAz View Post
    But you don't know the ability of this poster. You're assuming based on one Facebook post. When I show 'Fag and a Can' to people, I'm certain, without context, they 'assume' my ability is at that level. They don't know I wrote it in that way deliberately. It's the same here. Assumption is snobbery and people here are assuming. If you've got a posh voice, should I assume a particular mindset? No.

    Got me sen a fag and a can
    Two black eyes cos I’m the man
    Tattoos and dots on me face
    Scars and jeans to hide me grace
    You're expanding the discussion beyond what the OP wrote, which isn't fair. The OP decried the poor grammar in the example ... not the author ... and not any hypothetical alternate works.

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