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Thread: Exit

  1. #11
    Free verse is the dominant form in contemporary poetry and integrated use of enjambment is a necessary by-product of the elimination of end-rhyme. An arbitrary capital at the head of each line retards enjambment and is nothing more than a typographical practice from the past. There is no reason for it. Punctuation is more properly used to block off 'units' in a piece of writing, or to assist in lineal development of ideas. . .again, essential in prose, optional in poetry. And, having made those points, a handful of contemporary poets still write in traditional formats and are at total liberty to do so. Poetry is a broad-shouldered form of Art: there is ample room for many different formats, forms, styles, and subjects of poems. None is "wrong". Some will have a tiny audience, but that is no matter. Audiences for poetry are fickle and change with the times. Current audiences have but slender appetites for the traditional forms, but those who wish to read traditional forms in the current era have every right to seek them out. And poets who wish to provide, are of course welcome to do so. A Veteran member of WF, James Hercules Sutton, has written hundreds and hundreds of sonnets, including sonnet sequences. So do not ever feel compelled to adopt the open-ended free verse form that is in current favour. If you aren't comfortable there, find a Form that works for you.

    So from all that, it follows that there are no rigid "rules" in contemporary poetry. I am fond of saying that contemporary poets must re-invent Form with every poem they write. Often, when I begin a poem, I have no idea of Form. The poem-abuilding has not yet advised me where it wishes to take me. Gradually, as the piece emerges, a Form takes shape and I just let it go. Those are difficult moments, because as the words come, the rational mind starts to percolate below the surface, wanting to impose pattern and line-length and convention. But I persevere, let the words take the bit in their teeth and run with it. I try to see it thru without imposing my will on the flow.

    No rigid rule, but we have expectations of the poem as poets. And readers have expectations as readers. Both groups want heightened and expanded language, rhythm, music, imagery, metaphor, mystery, alliteration, assonance . . .and much more. Not every element in every poem. Of course not. But it is the balance of these kinds of elements with each other that leads to Presence and epiphany, for ports and for readers. DEFINE this balance? This Presence? These strange "epiphanies"? I can't. I question the wisdom of even trying.

    God help me, I'm turning to a fucking running shoe to close this post: JUST DO IT!



    ________________________________________________

    "I believe in nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of the imagination". Keats, ​Letters

    "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main . . . any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls -- it tolls for thee. " John Donne, Meditation XVII

  2. #12
    Wow! Is that guy a smooth talker or what? Yeah I said or what? I'm writing him in on the ballot come November. I actually want a Canadian for president.
    Hey, like he says: There are no rules.

    a poet friend
    RH Peat

  3. #13
    Actually, I'd make one helluva President! That's probably one doozy of an idea. Every country in the world has to have a foreigner as Head of State. Yee--hah!



    ________________________________________________

    "I believe in nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of the imagination". Keats, ​Letters

    "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main . . . any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls -- it tolls for thee. " John Donne, Meditation XVII

  4. #14

  5. #15
    Hi Octo Tirra has it i dont like punctuation I just talk on paper
    when talking I dont say comma nor like to pause for effect
    plus my ipad wont capitalise i
    and i wont if it wont
    think thats called a reverse behind the bike sheds

    thanks Clark To me punctuation focuses too much attention on the type of brush used by the painter

    further a poem is like an incantation at its end magic should appear or some state be evoked
    Last edited by Gofa; March 4th, 2020 at 10:19 AM.
    We are the measure of all things. And the beauty of our creation, of our art is proportional to the beauty of ourselves of our souls. Jonas Mekas

  6. #16
    Octopus

    There is something contradictory in the form/content musically. He doesn't need punctuation when he's using versification as breathing and stanzas as quatrains for long pauses between grouped thoughts. It becomes obvious he's not concerned with a melodic sound in the rhymes that he's using. That the poem has a hard sound and it lacks linear flow as a melody through the lines and rhymes because of the hard stopped lines rhyming or not.

    He's also capping every line which puts that hard stop at the end of every line. Each line has a hard stop on it. None of this is new in poetry for those that don't realize that the page is a score for the written poems music and it's breath pause connected to the poem's sounds; they are carried by the line itself. It is typical of someone without the knowledge of how the music in poetry is written on the page. Just breaking lines is not really versification. Without enjambment there is always a hard-stop on the versified line in free verse; which is kind of weak on a rhyming poem, for it breaks the melody of the lines into hammered-blows. The lines are: boom boom boom boom space, boom boom boom boom space, boom boom boom boom space with heavy accented beats on the end of every line rhyming or not. So he's actually breaking the rhymes apart the way the poem is written on the page without realizing it. He probably reads it out loud differently than what he is writing on the page. Or when he reads it out loud he is only accenting all the rhymes with that hammered blow while the other un-rhyming are written to be accented aren't accented. It gets difficult to sell this to publisher.

    Which might be what he wants. Accenting every line is kind of boring, but to each their own. Poems don't need to be punctuated. But the lack of punctuation does have an effect on the written word and the versification. For the line breaks themselves become critical to the understanding in any group of lines as a thought process of lanuage. They can be easily misread, so they have to be worded carefully for deeper understanding. Rhyming is always better with or without a meter with a strong forward flow of content/form. That means it has to be written into the versification in some way that pulls the readers forward. Versification itself is another rhythm within any poem beyond the rhymes and the language's cadence. The length of line can vary if the cadence is held at a forward pace in the flow of the poem intent. Some of his stanza are pretty good concerning cadence without end-stopping the lines the way the poem is written. But end-stopping all the lines is working against the forward flow of the lines.

    Musically there are many things he could do to make the poem more sound oriented. Like the same number of syllables in each line would help to some extent. The use of feet would help, but it's not really needed; it's just another option. The softening of the hard line endings would improve the flow of the poem greatly. And any lines that could be enjambed could offer far more flow to the melody within the rhymes. They wouldn't all end-stop.

    I like that he says he doesn't say comma when he's talking and he's talking when he writes. The thing there is that he takes breaths and pauses when talking and that also gets shown on the page through stanzas and versification as well as caesuras in the mid-line of the poem. Breathing is part of the music of poetry — in a very big way. Poetry is meant to be Aural more so than Oral; that it deals with an Aural tradition that's passed down at one time through generations. That means it is to be heard above just speaking. So how it is heard; becomes real important to the poems music.

    So actually in his statement he has a good attitude concerning the sounds of poetry. He's listening to the poem. Right on, I like to hear that. I always read the poem out loud when I write. I want to hear it, not just speak it; because for actual form/content is auditory and not orated. I know this sounds contradictory, but if you think about it awhile; you will realize what I'm saying. This is why poetry exists in all cultures and all languages. It is the voice singing the poem as auditory language that breathes as well as announces. It is meant to evoke the listener into their own feelings to realize the writers feelings. That's pure magic right there. In primitive cultures it was part of the dance and the drum rhythm as well. Poetry is meant to be musically heard.

    A poet friend
    RH Peat



    ==========================

    Gofa

    The power of your language is there; learn to represent it on the page. The poetic feelings are there, but they not being communicated on the page.
    You would be better off not using any Caps at all to begin lines. You can set the program to do this. Are you using Microsoft word? There are people here that can help you with that if the machine is doing that.

    a poet friend
    RH Peat

  7. #17
    RHPeat
    First and foremost thank you I spent my time reading your words and nodding in acknowledgement at what you are explaining. I recognise the truth when i hear it even if i have little understanding at first pass

    this is why i write as you have written
    It is meant to evoke the listener into their own feelings to realize the writers feelings. That's pure magic right there
    yes it is sharing, communing, walking a mile or a meter in anothers shoes

    The power of your language is there; learn to represent it on the page. The poetic feelings are there, but they not being communicated on the page.

    i use an ipad and often bring writing here as a copy paste from the pages program

    thank you for pointing out things that are instinctual to me that i might add crafting to them

    that said i am a story teller and it is within and for the story that i grasp and wrestle

    best said i am the teller of stories i just think they are mine while i am telling them

    thank you again and for naming your self poet friend to me




    We are the measure of all things. And the beauty of our creation, of our art is proportional to the beauty of ourselves of our souls. Jonas Mekas

  8. #18
    repeated post
    Last edited by Gofa; March 8th, 2020 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Duplicate
    We are the measure of all things. And the beauty of our creation, of our art is proportional to the beauty of ourselves of our souls. Jonas Mekas

  9. #19
    Your poem encapsulates existentialism. I do not have much of a critique for this was executed well and apparently thought through, I hope you find usefulness in my rating. 10.3/10.5 from me.

    If you relate at all to your character, a tip for mindfulness: take on the form and the complexion of the dead.

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