The New "Literary Maneuvers" Coffee Shop - Page 3


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Thread: The New "Literary Maneuvers" Coffee Shop

  1. #21
    The race idea could be interesting but I suspect would lead to a lot of problematic stereotyping.
    Probably not on this board if I'm being honest. Most people here are pretty sensitive.
    Dead by Dawn!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by BornForBurning View Post
    Probably not on this board if I'm being honest. Most people here are pretty sensitive.

    I agree with Born.
    I hate it when people automatically respond with some PC caution alerts.
    If we can't speak honestly about racial differences, we will never evolve as a society.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Rotten View Post
    650 is just too short for any useful writing.
    I disagree. The 650 limit has really helped me tighten up my word use over the course of many LMs. You can tell a good story in 650w, I know because I've read them...not necessarily written them.

    The gender/race issue would have to be handled with care if that is the choice, but we are writers and we should be able to write about what we choose. I am not advocating for or against and I do not currently have my staff uniform on....
    "Don't fuck with writers, we will describe you." -unknown

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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Rotten View Post
    I agree with Born.
    I hate it when people automatically respond with some PC caution alerts.
    If we can't speak honestly about racial differences, we will never evolve as a society.
    I’m not saying outrage culture is right, but the problem is that in 650 words it’s not like an entry would be able to necessarily have the room to explore racial identity in any meaningful sense. So, what you’ll probably get, with at least a few entries anyway, is a bunch of stereotypes in order to “qualify”. I’m not saying it is inevitable, but it’s highly likely.

    Same deal with writing a story based around gender. Especially given a few members here have exhibited some rather...different views. For me, it falls into the category of the potential problems outweighing potential rewards. But if anybody wants to second it, by all means.

    I did like your species idea and would SECOND that.
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  5. #25
    So, what you’ll probably get, with at least a few entries anyway, is a bunch of stereotypes in order to “qualify”. I’m not saying it is inevitable, but it’s highly likely
    In that case even more important to have people exploring this concept, in my opinion. Writing forums is the appropriate place to hash this kind of stuff out. This is where people should be taking risks and making mistakes. If people write a bunch of cliches just because they had to write a protagonist that wasn't their race, that's an opportunity for all of us to learn. This is the correct place to make that kind of error.
    Same deal with writing a story based around gender. Especially given a few members here have exhibited some rather...different views.
    Again I don't see the problem. People have differing political views regarding gender. That's fine. Here, we are concerned with good writing. We agree that such a thing as 'good writing' exists regardless of politics. I am all for sensitivity (I'm assuming this is your concern?) but at a certain point we have to allow people to fail and yes, sometimes fail offensively if we ever want to teach them anything.
    I am personally in favor of the 650 word limit.
    Dead by Dawn!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BornForBurning View Post
    In that case even more important to have people exploring this concept, in my opinion. Writing forums is the appropriate place to hash this kind of stuff out. This is where people should be taking risks and making mistakes. If people write a bunch of cliches just because they had to write a protagonist that wasn't their race, that's an opportunity for all of us to learn. This is the correct place to make that kind of error.
    I agree in principle, but there's a fine line between 'exploring a concept' and exploiting ill-informed stereotypes, and I'm not sure all members possess the ability to portray other races with respect, accuracy or both.

    Writing Forums may be generally fairly lenient to those who make errors, but the guidelines of the forum explicitly state that racial discrimination is not welcome and that members have to be considerate. I am simply pointing out that having a writing challenge centered around writing from the POV of 'another race' with a 650 word limit will open the door to some really bad takes and, personally, I would not want to be a part of platforming that. YMMV.

    Just so we're clear, I'm not opposed to the concept. I actually have a story just published in Flashes written from the P-O-V of a black slave being lynched, which coincidentally was my entry in November's LM, so in many respects this kind of prompt is attractive. I like 'edgy writing'. But, when I wrote that story, I was careful. I made sure I framed it in a clearly historical context and was unambiguous about who the bad guys were. I still am in two minds as to whether I captured the voice authentically, and I don't think I would tackle the whole "Write from the POV of another race" in any context beyond that narrow historical frame.

    Maybe other writers on here could pull it off, but I don't think many can. What I forsee is a bunch of stories rife with hackneyed Ebonics and Spanglish. If you disagree, go ahead and second it and prove me wrong. I'd like that.

    Again I don't see the problem. People have differing political views regarding gender. That's fine. Here, we are concerned with good writing. We agree that such a thing as 'good writing' exists regardless of politics. I am all for sensitivity (I'm assuming this is your concern?) but at a certain point we have to allow people to fail and yes, sometimes fail offensively if we ever want to teach them anything.
    I am personally in favor of the 650 word limit.
    I was being diplomatic. It's not just a matter of differing views, but downright toxic ones.
    "If you don't like my peaches, don't shake my tree."

    "Perhaps I write for no one. Perhaps for the same person children are writing for when they scrawl their names in the snow."

    “Remember this: Dumbo didn’t need the feather; the magic was in him. ”

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Rotten View Post
    Just because you write from those POVs doesn't mean you nail it.
    Most men do a lousy job of writing from a woman's POV.
    Essentially they just slap tits on a male character.
    Ladies, am I right?
    Well, I think it goes beyond that, but yeah. This is one of my issues - - Even in this "enlightened" time, I find it hard to swallow that not many male authors seem to understand that women have a whole bunch of strengths on their own, that have nothing to do with men. I tire of reading about women who are not only so stunning they stop traffic wherever they go and never, ever miss a cue, but they also can drop a man twice their size by just being their wily selves. They frequently have sinewy arms, from all the pull ups and such. Garbage. A woman can destroy another woman with just one look. It starts at the feet and slowly works it's way up; a sneer on the face is necessary, of course, as is saying nothing at all. We can be smart-alecs, though, subtle in our disdain and this is something few men understand. We do not need to resort to physical confrontations to fell an enemy. I'm not saying there are no physically strong women, but a woman does NOT have to act like a man to achieve a goal. A woman who remains silent and calm in the face of a physically challenging moment is much more believable than one who goes face to face physically with her enemy. Anyway, that's just how I feel. Unfortunately, I think the public is in love with a woman who fights, who jumps and runs and leaps tall buildings in a single bound. LOL.
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  8. #28
    Maybe other writers on here could pull it off, but I don't think many can. What I forsee is a bunch of stories rife with hackneyed Ebonics and Spanglish. If you disagree, go ahead and second it and prove me wrong. I'd like that.
    I don't know what would happen. My point was if that does happen, all it is is an opportunity for people to improve. You seem to be terrified that people will fail at writing diverse characters. Well, they may fail, but failure is part of learning. You can't expect people to be good at something on their first or third try. You are worried about 'platforming' something that will maximum be seen by twenty people and is being viewed explicitly through the lens of criticism. And if you are worried about genuine racial malice, I honestly don't see any of that here.
    I was being diplomatic. It's not just a matter of differing views, but downright toxic ones.
    Your definition of differing views is pretty trite if it doesn't include the ones that you find actually destructive lmao
    Dead by Dawn!

  9. #29
    Hey, so I'm going to second the "write from the perspective of another race" prompt, and here's why:

    Originally I wasn't going to second the prompt because it basically gives ultimate creative freedom to the author. The idea of a prompt is to limit the scope, and writing outside your race is essentially a limitless scope. However, based on some of the responses to this thread, apparently this would be a stretch for some people, which I understand.

    On the question of stereotypes, I do not believe that the answer to bad representation is no representation. If an author goes into writing a story with an attitude of love and sensitivity, yeah, they might still make ignorant mistakes, but putting it out there and being corrected is how they're going to learn. Fear should not keep us from trying to write outside of our experience. (For people who are only writing diversely out of a sense of obligation, there's not a lot of hope there ...)
    "So long is the way to the unknown, long is the way we have come. . ." ~ Turisas, Five Hundred and One

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  10. #30
    "Maybe other writers on here could pull it off, but I don't think many can. What I forsee is a bunch of stories rife with hackneyed Ebonics and Spanglish. If you disagree, go ahead and second it and prove me wrong. I'd like that."

    I'm gonna make a guess here that you have no friends that are POC.


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