WARNING: Discusses sexual violence: Do my villains have to have a tragic backstories? - Page 5


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Thread: WARNING: Discusses sexual violence: Do my villains have to have a tragic backstories?

  1. #41
    Yes. But I also think a large part of it has to do with internet culture. Perhaps one guy had a blog where he coined the term "incel" and that snowballed into an identity, or a movement, or whatever you want to call it. I prefer "train wreck".
    Actually no it was like five guys on some board. Maybe wizardchan, I forget. That's hyperbole. There were more but it really was a tiny, tiny number of people. Couple hundred maximum. Than some stupid journalist found out about it, published an article and use of the word exploded. So now we're stuck with a bunch of people using 'incel' like embarrassing /r9k/ nerds and thinking this is some movement in larger society. It's terrible.
    Stranded in Babylon

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ArrowInTheBowOfTheLord View Post
    I think you're too hung up on this one screenplay. If you keep rewriting it and rewriting it and it still doesn't work, write something else. Practice, and improve. And then maybe, if you still care about it, you can go back to it and rewrite it when you've honed your skills. It's not about writing the same thing over and over, it's about writing a lot of stuff. Even doing some simple writing exercises could be helpful, like recreating overheard dialogue or writing a couple character sketches.

    My ratio is similar to BFB's: something like 300 poems written, only 4 published. And when I can't get a poem or story to work? I do something else. And something else. And something else. By that time I might not care about the old idea anymore, so I might not go back to it, but what's important is that I'm practicing.
    Well I've done that before, where I would write something, then something else, then something else, but it resulted in a lot of half baked scripts, so I wanted to finish one one better, rather than keep moving onto the next thing all the time. But I also am writing the time travel one that I asked about before on here as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenTR View Post
    If they were raped in the military, why take it out on innocent women?

    Or are they targeting the wives of servicemen? Please say no.

    I'm unclear about frequency of men being raped in the military, as are most people, I'd assume. So if it sounds contrived to me, it may to most. I mean, what are the chances? Male rape victims are probably not that open about their experience. I suppose they could meet in some clinic, but that would mean a lot of men were being raped at once, or within a short time frame. Again, contrived. Besides, that's a whole other script there; to use it as a motivation might dilute other aspects of your story.

    Generally, people have a pretty good idea of what motivates rape. I don't think they'd want to delve any deeper into it.

    How did this gang get together? Do you have a backstory for that? If not, take some time to write one out. The right idea might come as a result

    Lastly, how prominent is their motivation to rape in the story other than to serve as an explanation for the crimes you are portraying? Does it intersect with any other themes? If not, I'd say it's best to keep it as simple as possible.
    I don't know why they would target women after the experience in the military, I was just asking about the one reader's suggestion, which was that. I think he meant that maybe the villains feel they lost their masculinity and want revenge to get it back maybe, he meant...

    I wrote so they did meet in a therapy clinic since they were going to a clinic because of the anger issues towards society, and that is how they all meet, as it's written now.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    I don't know why they would target women after the experience in the military, I was just asking about the one reader's suggestion, which was that. I think he meant that maybe the villains feel they lost their masculinity and want revenge to get it back maybe, he meant...

    I wrote so they did meet in a therapy clinic since they were going to a clinic because of the anger issues towards society, and that is how they all meet, as it's written now.
    Do some research on the effect of rape on its victims.

  4. #44
    I've suggested this before, but here it is again: you should really limit your reader feedback to a one-time thing.

    Get feedback once. Make any adjustments as needed (or as you see fit). Then: publish and/or produce your story.

    Don't continually seek feedback. All that will do is drag you into a never-ending loop of rewriting, rewriting, rewriting ... which is the loop that you seem to be stuck in now.

    Break out of the loop. Be proud of your creative choices. Bring the screenplay home with a knockout ending, and get started on the rest of the production process.

  5. #45
    My unique take on motivating these movie characters: I say there has to be consequences the villains wanted revenge in the history of the fictional world. Maybe that way you can think of a really compelling motivation for the protagonist and antagonist. You see the example of being kicked out of the army has to have imo long last effects into the past, present, and future, and unless you determine why these feelings affect the antagonist's fortune. I don't see how you will have a compelling antagonist. Because the antagonist must be suffering. These can't be random rape victims. They have to create a situation the characters must try to beat to change their fortune. Think hard, maybe the answer isn't inferiority. But rather some situation where if he rapes these women, he will have gained the upper hand. Maybe he's making a mockery of the police department for instance since they ruined his family's life. You get the idea, there are rippling effects of the past, going into the present and future. There could be a court trial looming into the future, where his family again is in trouble. (sounds like a movie)

    I read something in psychology called the punitiveness schema. When you grow up with someone not compassionate you become judging towards others. Criminals and law enforcement has these beliefs or what is called schema. (credit goes to Melinda Curtis for the explanation from her book on characterization for schema)

    So what does the character have to gain or to lose by punishing them? Is money on the line? Is someone's life at stake? Brainstorm. It can't be that bad. If you say the police's reputation then I think the policeman might have put away someone in prison. Think hard. It can't be that difficult. It seems you can try something along these lines. It sounds logical to me. I don't know if it makes sense as a way to motivate a character. An emotional wound can motivate. So can schema such as a belief or ego. There's more to it than that.

    Just my own theory and opinion. But this book theory is talked about in some books on writing I have read.

    It can be intuitive thinking that creates conflict in how to write stories in my case. For example, think badly of any situation, looking for imperfections and maybe you can come up with conflict. By turning a positive statement into a negative statement. It was the world's best museum. It was the world's worst museum.
    I would follow as in believe in the words of good moral leaders. Rather than the beliefs of oneself.
    The most difficult thing for a writer to comprehend is to experience silence, so speak up. (quoted from a member)

  6. #46
    I've suggested this before, but here it is again: you should really limit your reader feedback to a one-time thing.

    Get feedback once. Make any adjustments as needed (or as you see fit). Then: publish and/or produce your story.

    Don't continually seek feedback. All that will do is drag you into a never-ending loop of rewriting, rewriting, rewriting ... which is the loop that you seem to be stuck in now.

    Break out of the loop. Be proud of your creative choices. Bring the screenplay home with a knockout ending, and get started on the rest of the production process.
    Oh well the thing is, is that the readers feedback, they will talk about maybe 10 different problems in the plot. I will then try to fix those problems and show them again, but then those new solutions I tried, also have completely different problems now. So I felt it was a matter of trial and error for each problem, until you get it right, where everything works, and not one things ruins everything else.

    My unique take on motivating these movie characters: I say there has to be consequences the villains wanted revenge in the history of the fictional world. Maybe that way you can think of a really compelling motivation for the protagonist and antagonist. You see the example of being kicked out of the army has to have imo long last effects into the past, present, and future, and unless you determine why these feelings affect the antagonist's fortune. I don't see how you will have a compelling antagonist. Because the antagonist must be suffering. These can't be random rape victims. They have to create a situation the characters must try to beat to change their fortune. Think hard, maybe the answer isn't inferiority. But rather some situation where if he rapes these women, he will have gained the upper hand. Maybe he's making a mockery of the police department for instance since they ruined his family's life. You get the idea, there are rippling effects of the past, going into the present and future. There could be a court trial looming into the future, where his family again is in trouble. (sounds like a movie)

    I read something in psychology called the punitiveness schema. When you grow up with someone not compassionate you become judging towards others. Criminals and law enforcement has these beliefs or what is called schema. (credit goes to Melinda Curtis for the explanation from her book on characterization for schema)

    So what does the character have to gain or to lose by punishing them? Is money on the line? Is someone's life at stake? Brainstorm. It can't be that bad. If you say the police's reputation then I think the policeman might have put away someone in prison. Think hard. It can't be that difficult. It seems you can try something along these lines. It sounds logical to me. I don't know if it makes sense as a way to motivate a character. An emotional wound can motivate. So can schema such as a belief or ego. There's more to it than that.

    Just my own theory and opinion. But this book theory is talked about in some books on writing I have read.

    It can be intuitive thinking that creates conflict in how to write stories in my case. For example, think badly of any situation, looking for imperfections and maybe you can come up with conflict. By turning a positive statement into a negative statement. It was the world's best museum. It was the world's worst museum.
    Oh okay. I thought that if I make the victims were random and unrelated that that actually makes the villains stronger though, cause it's more difficult for the police to catch them if the victims have nothing in common in the investigation. When you say maybe the police might have put someone in prison, what does that have to do with the current crimes at all?

    As for the antagonists must be suffering, I thought that constantly being rejected by members of the opposite gender for years and years would be suffering cause it would cause a huge inferiority complex in them, that they would want to get power over, wouldn't it?

  7. #47
    But the inferiority complex is mental. We need past, present, future events that reinforce the belief he really did feel inferior. Was he crippled? Did he have no job? Does getting revenge mean he'll earn money from the ring leader of the rapes? Is his mother sick? Will this save her?

    Mentality is a combination of the past, present and future. The above is just an example of how I would try to incorporate a different plot.

    This is more specific and has to do with the movie you are writing.

    Why was it important in the past (the emotional scar or psychological scar)? Why is it important now (what's at stake)? What can he do to change his perceived future?(whatever you want to call this motivation)

    What events happened in the past? What is happening now? How will it affect the future?

    Think of inferiority as characterization but alone it does not mean plot. What's the cause and effect of feeling crippled? That he commits crimes?

    This is all hypothetical and made up. It's to think outside the box and to help you write not thinking strictly inferiority is my motivation. But there are no events shown or a history shown. If that makes sense.

    Show and don't tell his inferiority.

    Crippled would do the trick. I am giving advice. I am not qualified to be a script doctor. I am just showing you a different way of thinking.
    I would follow as in believe in the words of good moral leaders. Rather than the beliefs of oneself.
    The most difficult thing for a writer to comprehend is to experience silence, so speak up. (quoted from a member)

  8. #48
    Well it's just the thing is, is that it's not really a character a study, but more of a suspense thriller. If you watch a movie like Seven or The Silence of the Lambs for example, they do not have an entire backstory on the villains like that. The police learn of a motivation for why they are doing what they are doing and that's it. So how come it works in the movies that you do not have to explain an entire origin story for the villains, and the audience is okay with that, but not with mine? Why is mine a special exception to the rule? If I can figure out why mine is being seen as the exception to the rule, then I could figure out how to handle it properly I think maybe.

  9. #49
    A crippled person doesn't need a backstory. I think it's helpful to do something similar to that if not that. If the backstory is your concern or the movie becoming a character study. I did say to think outside the box. I recommend it again to think outside the box.
    I would follow as in believe in the words of good moral leaders. Rather than the beliefs of oneself.
    The most difficult thing for a writer to comprehend is to experience silence, so speak up. (quoted from a member)

  10. #50
    Oh okay thanks. Well it's just that a crippled villain is useless as a physical threat, and I thought of it would make it more suspenseful, if I made every member of the group a physical and very mobile threat. But maybe they could have something else wrong, like a disfigurement or something? Or what if I made another one somewhat mentally or socially challenged?

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