WARNING: Discusses sexual violence: Do my villains have to have a tragic backstories? - Page 4


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Thread: WARNING: Discusses sexual violence: Do my villains have to have a tragic backstories?

  1. #31
    Not sure but as far as being an "incel," perhaps arrogance/entitlement is involved. Meaning, they may expect women to see beyond their own lack of the typically desired surface traits and give them a chance but refuse to do the same themselves. In other words, a "two" who won't accept less than an "eight.'"

    For ex., I have a friend who signed up for three dating sites but did not get one single date. She is not the cute young thing she once was but she was rejected by many men who were no "better" than she was. I wonder how many of them were angry or disappointed because they "can't get a date."

    However, it's quite a leap from that to sexually assaulting random people. Googling something like "motivation for rape" might shed more light on it. But I would expect that a very high percentage of violent criminals did have traumatic upbringings.
    Last edited by Ma'am; December 5th, 2019 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #32
    Oh okay, well it's been done before in fiction where not get any is the motivation, so what do those fiction stories do differently? Also I was told I can sell it, and I just need to create suspension of disbelief better, so the reader will not be asking so many questions, but what I am doing wrong when it comes to creating suspension of disbelief then?

    As for motivations, I did look up motivations here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_sexual_violence

    One of the motivations was listed that rapists do their crimes to compensate for feelings of inadequacy, so wouldn't that be similar to the motivation I already have?
    Last edited by ironpony; December 5th, 2019 at 08:28 PM.

  3. #33
    ironpony one thought you should absolutely consider is how much time you've actually spent writing vs. how much time you've spent 'researching' and asking for advice. I'll repeat what I've said in the past: no amount of planning, no amount of research, no amount of advice will ever compensate for putting in the real work and just writing. You've got to just grit your teeth and practice, over and over and over again until you implicitly understand how to tell a good story. It's often not even a conscious thing. And I've read your stuff, I know you aren't a good writer at this point. You are not publishable. We could give you the best advice in the world and it won't do anything until you actually understand how to employ it. I've probably started writing nearly 100 short stories at this point. How many have gotten published? One.
    Dead by Dawn!

  4. #34
    Okay thanks. I just feel that I keep making the same mistake in all the rewrites and not sure what I am doing wrong. The character motivations seem to be the biggest problem, but not sure what to do about that.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'am View Post
    Not sure but as far as being an "incel," perhaps arrogance/entitlement is involved. Meaning, they may expect women to see beyond their own lack of the typically desired surface traits and give them a chance but refuse to do the same themselves. In other words, a "two" who won't accept less than an "eight.'"
    Yes. But I also think a large part of it has to do with internet culture. Perhaps one guy had a blog where he coined the term "incel" and that snowballed into an identity, or a movement, or whatever you want to call it. I prefer "train wreck".

    Misery loves company. By branding themselves involuntarily celibate, they give themselves license to wallow in it and not take responsibility for having such an attitude.

    I looked at an incel forum once. They're very defensive and obviously self-pitying. They call attractive women "Stacys" and attractive men "Chads". All I saw was a lot of complaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Oh okay, well it's been done before in fiction where not get any is the motivation, so what do those fiction stories do differently? Also I was told I can sell it, and I just need to create suspension of disbelief better, so the reader will not be asking so many questions, but what I am doing wrong when it comes to creating suspension of disbelief then?
    It is my understanding that suspension of disbelief refers to tricking the reader/audience into believing something fantastical or illogical, not filling in plot holes.

    I agree with BornForBurning: just write it. Fill in the holes with something, anything. Getting further along could give you a better perspective on the problems you're having. Get out of the sandpit.

    You say you're producing this script. Perhaps you're overly concerning yourself with issues of budget, financing, pre-production etc.. Not good. Your only concern right now should be with getting the story down, holes and all.

  6. #36
    Oh okay thanks. I already have the whole script written, and keep trying to make it better. But I have it all written, holes and all so far.

  7. #37
    Why not just move on to a different problem? Forget about the villain's motivation for now and tighten up some dialogue or something. Then, re-read this thread and have another go at it. Lots of good advice here.

  8. #38
    Oh well it's just that the motivation drives a good amount of the dialogue, and when it comes to writing, I was told before to solve all the character problems first, cause that can affect the dialogue, and then dialogue comes last, if that's true?

    It also seems from people's feedback that the villain motivation is the biggest problem with the story, so if that's true, I thought maybe I should try solve that first.

    One reader keeps insisting that having the group be raped in the army is the best explanation cause it's such an extreme crime that it would set them off to form a revenge group like that, but also, the military training would explain how they are able to successfully pull off such crimes over and over again. So that backstory serves as a double explanation. Do you think that reader has a point though, that it's the most believable explanation?
    Last edited by ironpony; December 6th, 2019 at 12:02 AM.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Okay thanks. I just feel that I keep making the same mistake in all the rewrites and not sure what I am doing wrong. The character motivations seem to be the biggest problem, but not sure what to do about that.
    I think you're too hung up on this one screenplay. If you keep rewriting it and rewriting it and it still doesn't work, write something else. Practice, and improve. And then maybe, if you still care about it, you can go back to it and rewrite it when you've honed your skills. It's not about writing the same thing over and over, it's about writing a lot of stuff. Even doing some simple writing exercises could be helpful, like recreating overheard dialogue or writing a couple character sketches.

    My ratio is similar to BFB's: something like 300 poems written, only 4 published. And when I can't get a poem or story to work? I do something else. And something else. And something else. By that time I might not care about the old idea anymore, so I might not go back to it, but what's important is that I'm practicing.
    "So long is the way to the unknown, long is the way we have come. . ." ~ Turisas, Five Hundred and One

    "[An artist is] an idiot babbling through town. . .crying, 'Dreams, dreams for sale! Two for a kopek, two for a song; if you won't buy them, just take them for free!'" ~ Michael O' Brien,
    Sophia House

    Christ is risen from the dead,
    trampling on Death by death,
    And on those in the tombs,
    lavishing light.



  10. #40
    If they were raped in the military, why take it out on innocent women?

    Or are they targeting the wives of servicemen? Please say no.

    I'm unclear about frequency of men being raped in the military, as are most people, I'd assume. So if it sounds contrived to me, it may to most. I mean, what are the chances? Male rape victims are probably not that open about their experience. I suppose they could meet in some clinic, but that would mean a lot of men were being raped at once, or within a short time frame. Again, contrived. Besides, that's a whole other script there; to use it as a motivation might dilute other aspects of your story.

    Generally, people have a pretty good idea of what motivates rape. I don't think they'd want to delve any deeper into it.

    How did this gang get together? Do you have a backstory for that? If not, take some time to write one out. The right idea might come as a result.

    Lastly, how prominent is their motivation to rape in the story other than to serve as an explanation for the crimes you are portraying? Does it intersect with any other themes? If not, I'd say it's best to keep it as simple as possible.

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