WARNING: Discusses sexual violence: Do my villains have to have a tragic backstories? - Page 3


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Thread: WARNING: Discusses sexual violence: Do my villains have to have a tragic backstories?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Well I wrote it so that it's left up the imagination but a couple of readers said that's not convincing and each member of the group should have their own detailed explained reason? Is that necessary though, cause I feel like it's hard to put that in. I mean should I write it so there is a flashback where they all sit and explain to each other there reasons?
    But WHY ARE THEY? Like, what makes them involuntary? Is it a physical defect? Are they tremendously ugly? Do they have constant flatulence? Is it more a social awkwardness or personality defect? Are they Nickelback fans?

    I'm not (really) being silly here, it takes quite a lot for somebody to be so overwhelmingly unattractive to so many people with such hopeless permanence that they have to resort to rape to fuel a sexual desire. I know some extremely ugly men who have sex. Not necessarily a lot of sex, but at least occasionally, and it's always consensual. I know zero involuntary celibates. I know plenty of celibates who consider it 'involuntary', but scratch the surface and you find it's bullshit. They're simply unwilling to make a minimal degree of effort and want to blame women for it. Is that who these guys are?

    Forget whether writing backstory is a good idea or not, are you even equipped to do it? Do you have the first clue how to address the basic question of 'why' beyond parroting 'involuntary celibacy', which of course is not an ailment but a symptom, to the extent it's a real thing at all? Do you actually know these characters in any real sense, or are they Just Rapists?

    Of course the other alternative is that they don't *have* to rape but that they *want* to rape, but that makes writing a backstory aimed to make these characters sympathetic pointless, because this whole thing hinges on some idea of compulsion.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Well I wrote it so that it's left up the imagination but a couple of readers said that's not convincing and each member of the group should have their own detailed explained reason? Is that necessary though, cause I feel like it's hard to put that in. I mean should I write it so there is a flashback where they all sit and explain to each other there reasons?
    Bro, this has been said over and over and over. You don't have to address every issue of your beta readers. Also, I started questioning whether you actually have a group of beta readers who stick to your story for YEARS on end.
    When will you start making decisions instead of pretending a group of readers has issue "x".

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Well I didn't actually use the label 'incel', I just said that being rejected all the time was the motivation, but I didn't use the actual incel word.

    However, as far as needing a motivation goes, the readers say I need one, but a better one. So if I don't need one, then why do they think so?
    Everybody experiences their share of rejection but they don't respond to it by assaulting people. Emotional, butthurt villains aren't that threatening. People will think all they need is a hug.

    How well do we know these villains? Do we spend time with them? Do we know their names? If not, their motives are probably less important. If you're presenting them as shadowy figures, a lack of motive might give your story a sense of mystery, which can be easily tweaked to achieve a sense of menace.

    Perhaps your law enforcement characters can put forth their own theories. Let your readers decide. Not everything in the crime solving business is wrapped up in a neat little explanation.

  4. #24
    Maybe you should study the psychology behind rapists, and sociological makeup. I think I did read of a scandal in a newspaper if you want to research the motivations of the people involved. The below link was published by BBC which covers political scandals. Maybe read on that to make us believe the characters behave the way they do and why they behave a certain way. It's not an easy read. It might offend some. But it is from the BBC which is reputable and doesn't cover disturbing material. But it was and still is a very big scandal that has been covered up. It's somewhat disconcerting because of things they committed. So this is a warning in case anyone doesn't like the newspaper article. (it was a disturbing crime and is not an easy article to read. It should however give you ideas)

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48913377

    (warning for content which deals with a real-life scenario that is disturbing). I hope this adds to the discussion.
    Last edited by Theglasshouse; December 5th, 2019 at 07:55 PM.
    I would follow as in believe in the words of good moral leaders. Rather than the beliefs of oneself.
    The most difficult thing for a writer to comprehend is to experience silence, so speak up. (quoted from a member)

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyscars View Post
    But WHY ARE THEY? Like, what makes them involuntary? Is it a physical defect? Are they tremendously ugly? Do they have constant flatulence? Is it more a social awkwardness or personality defect? Are they Nickelback fans?

    I'm not (really) being silly here, it takes quite a lot for somebody to be so overwhelmingly unattractive to so many people with such hopeless permanence that they have to resort to rape to fuel a sexual desire. I know some extremely ugly men who have sex. Not necessarily a lot of sex, but at least occasionally, and it's always consensual. I know zero involuntary celibates. I know plenty of celibates who consider it 'involuntary', but scratch the surface and you find it's bullshit. They're simply unwilling to make a minimal degree of effort and want to blame women for it. Is that who these guys are?

    Forget whether writing backstory is a good idea or not, are you even equipped to do it? Do you have the first clue how to address the basic question of 'why' beyond parroting 'involuntary celibacy', which of course is not an ailment but a symptom, to the extent it's a real thing at all? Do you actually know these characters in any real sense, or are they Just Rapists?

    Of course the other alternative is that they don't *have* to rape but that they *want* to rape, but that makes writing a backstory aimed to make these characters sympathetic pointless, because this whole thing hinges on some idea of compulsion.
    Well I assume it had to be more likely personality defects cause people are less likely to get involved with people of the have personality defects, or physical ones. But I left it up the imagination. However, readers do not want things left up the imaginations and want explanation.

    But as for using involuntary celibacy and rejection as the cause for rape, that's the motive that used a lot in other fiction, so when other stories, do it are they just being too unrealistic then?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Well I assume it had to be more likely personality defects cause people are less likely to get involved with people of the have personality defects, or physical ones.
    A lot of the time, it's the other way around.

    But as for using involuntary celibacy and rejection as the cause for rape, that's the motive that used a lot in other fiction, so when other stories, do it are they just being too unrealistic then?
    They're being lazy and unimaginative and need to limit their internet time.

    Why rape, though? Who else is producing this script besides you? What is it trying to say, if anything, about the act of rape?

    To be honest, my friend, if I was financing a film, or even browsing on Netflix and I saw a crime thriller about a gang of rapists, I'd pass. Culturally, it's not the best time to drop something like this on the public.

  7. #27
    Oh okay, it's just I know more ugly people who get sex, compared to ones with personality problems, so I was going by that. But I can make it physical defects if that's better.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Well I assume it had to be more likely personality defects cause people are less likely to get involved with people of the have personality defects
    What is a personality defect? What does that term mean to you?

  9. #29
    It means something that is preventing that person from making accomplishments, social or academic.

  10. #30
    The correct term is personality disorder.

    Antisocial personality disorder is closely related with sociopathy.

    So make them sociopaths.

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