LM September Scores - Page 3


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Thread: LM September Scores

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollheart View Post
    If anyone has any other question, comments or wants to respond to anything Ive said here, Id be glad to discuss any aspect of the story, or indeed my writing, with any of you.
    Firstly, Mr. Troll, thank you for responding to criticism in a positive fashion. That's refreshing.

    Look, everybody is different. I read the same story and didn't notice anything of what Mr. Burning did. All that proves is that people read things differently.

    I am not a detail oriented reader. I don't focus on it. What I do is focus on the general 'vibe' of the story, whether it seems authentic or not, and so long as it does I generally don't fixate on errors. For me, errors in SPaG and/or continuity are only errors if they are sufficiently noticeable to distract. From what I saw in your work, there was a sufficiently credible sense of place, the characters seemed somewhat believable, the dialogue was tight, and the pacing was in keeping with a 650 word piece of flash fiction.

    The fact that I did not notice your 'mistakes' doesn't mean they did or did not exist or that they are or are not important. All it means is that I think the story was, on the whole, good. I tend to grant work a special degree of patience if it is trying hard to be creative, if it is at least new, and yours was. Had you been less creatively inclined, I may have been more susceptible to the continuity, logic, etc. As it was, such things escaped my notice and/or attention.

    So the bottom line is: Don't be discouraged, don't feel the need to critique-the-critique. You're a good writer - I don't think anything in Mr. Burning's comments said otherwise. But a good writer is never a perfect writer and it's all ultimately subjective. Even the best books by the best and most successful writers still receive their share of negative feedback. People who don't like your work aren't going to change their minds because you push back on it even if you are factually correct. The very fact you can achieve a polarized outcome in response means that your work was sufficiently strong enough to affect a judgment. And that's all a good story can do.

  2. #22
    Offline: Depressed Trollheart's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Lucky.
    Like I said, I wasn't taking issue with the points raised, other than to try to explain them and answer some of the questions put forward by the judges. I wouldn't want someone thinking I hadn't put enough thought into the story to have left glaring plot holes or made large errors, none of which I think I did. But I'm happy everyone seemed to have something good to say about it, which is great when it's your first time at this. i appreciate all feedback, but if someone literally poses questions during a review I think it's incumbent upon me to answer them. And I did ask before I made the post and was told it was a good idea.
    Thanks again.
    TH
    Come away, human child to the waters and the wild
    With a faery hand in hand.
    For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. - WB Yeats "The Stolen Child"

    I drink to forget, but I never forget to drink.

    "If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
    He'd be gunned down cold by the CIA" - The The, "Armageddon Days Are Here (Again)" - Mind Bomb, 1989


    The most destructive force on the planet is not nukes or global warming...it is the human ego. - Ralph Rotten

  3. #23
    While it's hard to 'debate' anyone's reaction to a piece of art, or any artist's interpretation of their art, I guess I will.
    Also, if the human had just “run away” (apart from that being silly in the extreme to write: this isn’t Monty Python) where did the bloodcurdling scream come from?
    People scream even if they haven't been killed.
    “We need humans to come with us to this planet where there are flowers to be harvested. You are the only ones who can breathe the poisonous atmosphere of oxygen and hydrogen on the planet. The work is hard, the day long but we pay well. There is some danger, yes: some of the plants are in very inaccessible places and you may be injured. You should know this before you accept the job. It is dangerous, and we make no guarantees for your safety. But it has to be better than starving, right?”
    This is the core problem with regards to the plot. This is information you have that I don't. To you, the story makes sense because you are the author and you have access to this privileged information. I don't. As a reader, I have no idea what the humans know or don't know. Logically, I assume when the dad said 'they know the risks' that they know what we've just seen. But that assumption makes the plot illogical. And I can't do anything but assume, because I don't know that the humans are essentially being lied to, which the dad implied was precisely what wasn't happening. I get that he isn't trustworthy, but we have nothing else to go off of besides the kid thinking 'that might be a lie.' Pure speculation.

    I personally do not argue with critiques. And I know how that sounds coming from the critic. But I don't think it is wise. You can't say "you shouldn't have felt that way" to somebody. It's like music. You either like it or you don't. If someone really likes something of mine, and someone else doesn't, I generally think that me and the person that like it both share a collective blind spot due to our tastes. With regards to being dismissive as opposed to constructive, one thing to keep in mind as a writer is that while a reader always knows what he doesn't like, he often doesn't know what he would like. That's why a lot of my critiques are destructive as opposed to constructive. Giving actual suggestions on someone else's writing is a tentative science at best.

    In retrospect, I wish I had focused on character development as well. I see how that could have been helpful. Maybe I'm not the most intelligent reader. I certainly wouldn't regard my tastes as sophisticated. But that was my reaction. I found it confusing. I didn't like the characters. No, I am not nurturing. I don't regard myself as unnecessarily cruel either. I was not trying to nitpick. These were things that just jerked me out of the story. I can be more detail-oriented, but I generally go with how a story makes me feel. This is why I gave Tim's 14/20 even though it was chock-full of problems. I really did enjoy it. I felt something. I didn't feel anything when I read yours.

    At the same time, do NOT take my word as gospel. People have given me feedback that I ignored because it was bad feedback. And like I said, I did enjoy some of the imagery.
    Last edited by BornForBurning; October 4th, 2019 at 11:54 PM.
    Dead by Dawn!

  4. #24
    Offline: Depressed Trollheart's Avatar
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    Thanks for that reply, Bornforburning. Very much appreciated.
    I'll just reiterate that, had I not to have been constricted by the word limit, I would have been able to expand on the theme and explain it better. In retrospect, it was possibly a lot to try to fit into such a small space. But your critique is definitely appreciated. Thanks.

    ETA: You may be interested to learn that I will be developing this into a full story. Perhaps at that point you might want to read it, to see if you get more out of it. Perhaps not. It will be there either way if you are interested.
    Come away, human child to the waters and the wild
    With a faery hand in hand.
    For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. - WB Yeats "The Stolen Child"

    I drink to forget, but I never forget to drink.

    "If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
    He'd be gunned down cold by the CIA" - The The, "Armageddon Days Are Here (Again)" - Mind Bomb, 1989


    The most destructive force on the planet is not nukes or global warming...it is the human ego. - Ralph Rotten

  5. #25
    Hi Trollheart,

    Good on you for having the sand to enter the competition in the first place. This forum has a sqillion members, yet only a few make submissions to the competition. I've always loved the honest feedback and, I believe, it has improved my writing. I don't enter for a pat on the back. I enter so the Judges can tell me what I'm doing wrong. What I do right is already OK.

    I would prefer a Judge to say, "Let's face it Tim, there's so many Spelling and Punctuation errors in it that I had to read it several times...and so on."

    Here is some critique from bdcharles for my first competition entry.

    Quote:

    "Family"
    Tim
    SPaG: 3/5
    T&V: 3.5/5
    Effect: 6/10
    Total: 12.5/20

    Review: Your physical descriptors of the assault are really good and visceral. I can really feel them. You have a lot of grammar errors though, and the voice is kind of a little too generic for me, encumbered with time-worn phrases - "tortured features", "angry red welts", "pain-wracked eyes". Also I wasn't sure what happened at the end. What was the call for, and why did it have the effect on the warden that it did, and why did the inmate suddenly want his own cell? Some revelation that compromised the jailer, but I'm just not sure what. That said, you have some great images too - "like belting a cold-side-of-beef with a mallet", "amplifying the infliction", "triggering a trickle of dark blood", "long, uncomfortable minute" - really good phrases for conveying what happened. Interesting situation too, with the jailer and the inmate being brothers.

    ---

    "-schubert sherbet-"
    -xXx-
    SPaG: 5/5
    T&V: 5/5
    Effect: 9/10
    Total: 19/20

    I'm seeing what at first I thought was a psychiatric patient, but is possibly a hacker of staggering genius or maybe someone in an experimental lab, engaged in some seemingly repetitive task - painting equations - before we switch to a pair of observers. They can't believe the shit he's - or she's - coming out with. They've got videos, teams of experts, everything, trying to make sense of it all. Reality-bending stuff, this. Does he vanish? I wasn't sure.

    It is rather strange, seeing you write in a more accessible way, as you do with the dialogue in the second part. One of the things I love about your work is I always come away feeling smarter, even if it's just learning a couple of words like ansible and palimpsest, or some new subject like capstone cryptography. The voice is cool, the writing stylish as fuck, and nothing is wasted. Yeah. I dunno. I dinged you one effect point because I had to read it twice.

    ---
    End Quote:

    Now, you would think that -xXx- had won it with a 19 out of 20. The fact is he came LAST. I came second last, just like you.

    If you want to see -xXx-'s work, it's on FLASHES. I would be stoked to write half as well.

    My point is: a win doesn't mean you are the best, and a lose doesn't mean you are the worst, it's the feedback that matters. You can't know what you don't know, and the Judges do a good job at pointing it out--for free!

  6. #26
    Offline: Depressed Trollheart's Avatar
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    Absolutely, and like I said, I'm grateful to them. I just wanted to explain my thought processes and that the incredibly limiting size of the project forced me to leave out a lot of information that they really should have had, and that would have made the story better understood. That's all. Questions were asked, and I thought it best to answer them, and clarify my position. Not digging my heels in or banging the wall in frustration (that's just cos I have noisy neighbours!) - just want to make sure nobody thought I just threw this together.
    TH
    Come away, human child to the waters and the wild
    With a faery hand in hand.
    For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand. - WB Yeats "The Stolen Child"

    I drink to forget, but I never forget to drink.

    "If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today
    He'd be gunned down cold by the CIA" - The The, "Armageddon Days Are Here (Again)" - Mind Bomb, 1989


    The most destructive force on the planet is not nukes or global warming...it is the human ego. - Ralph Rotten

  7. #27
    LOL. And I thought I was the only one banging away at the walls when I can't get a story to work. I usually use my head.

    I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty sure nobody thinks you threw it together.

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