Could the police go into private property in this case? - Page 3


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Thread: Could the police go into private property in this case?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Oh okay, what I meant to say, is that the chasers are the ones in the masks, not the man being chased. But after he detains the one, the others run back into the house they came from. Does he have probable cause to go into their private property?
    Asked and answered. It depends on the situation and in reality he probably wouldn't do it, but typically yes - in a hot pursuit situation with a criminal believed to be immediately dangerous, if they run into a house that is allowed. Because if you don't do that, if you just shrug and say 'Oh well", who the hell knows? Are there other people in that house? Children? All these things are factors the police would need to determine the relative likelihood of, and weigh against 4A to decide whether they are justified in taking that action.

    The real question is whether the criminal would be sufficiently dangerous and their arrest pressing enough for the cop to believe he had no choice but to enter the house. I do know most cops are pretty wary about entering a domicile alone and tend to follow the rules (unless they're Amber Guyger obviously...) and this is primarily for safety reasons but also because it could potentially lead to contention in court if it turned out the officer was operating under false interpretation regarding what was happening. They can do it, but they probably wouldn't - suddenly it's a policy issue more than it is a legal one. My only point is criminals with brains being chased by the police wouldn't be smart to test the theory of 'no warrant'. I've met many a felon/sovereign citizen/freeman-on-the-land who wanted to bitch about warrants after the fact. Judges will generally side with law enforcement whenever they can over some idiot who thought 4A protected him from operating a sex trafficking ring out of his Missouri trailer.

    But I'm only talking about the theory of American law, not its application. Am not an expert on police standard operating procedures or anything - ask Amnesiac or somebody who is - but IMO far more likely they would just surround the house with a SWAT team or whatever and negotiate through the door for them to come out.
    Last edited by luckyscars; October 3rd, 2019 at 08:29 AM.
    "If you don't like my peaches, don't shake my tree."

  2. #22
    Wow...listening to that conversation made me 10 IQ points dumber.

    Yes, absolutely, a buncha guys running around in ski masks is grounds for police to 10-29 them (wants-warrants check, also known as an FI, or field interview.) If he pops a Frank on any of them (felony warrant) then someone is going to jail. Yes, the conduct described in the original post would be sufficient for the police officer to stop them and begin asking hard questions.

    You should listen to Amnesiac, he speaks from experience.
    Oh okay, thanks. When you say warrant, do you mean search warrant or arrest warrant? What do you mean by 'pop a Frank'?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollheart View Post
    Hah! And you're not even a cop! Remind me never to mess with you!

    From my very limited understanding of this, isn't it true that anything - search, arrest etc - conducted without a warrant can be ruled as inadmissible in court, and therefore put the case in jeopardy? Quite happy to be proven wrong.
    Actually, I was with a county sheriff's department for about 6 years. I was a road deputy, and I hauled my share of domestics to the county facilities. If there's reason to believe that there is a crime in progress, or if I knock on the door because I have reason to believe that a suspect is hiding in the house, and in the process of searching, I happen to see a bunch of heroin and coke lying on the coffee table, I absolutely can arrest the individuals and seize their contraband. Absolutely legal.
    Her: I love my computer! All of my friends are in there!
    Me: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about my freezer...
    Her: What?
    Me: What?

  4. #24
    Also, detaining someone and actually arresting someone: Two different things. I can detain someone and then release them, or I can detain them and it may turn into an arrest.

    Domestic assaults are often like this. Case in point: We got a call that a man had hit his wife and then took off in his truck. I show up, interview the wife, and she shows me some tiny bruises that are nearly faded, and anyway, they look like she barked her shins on the coffee table. Then I inspect her scalp for lumps or any other trauma. Nothing. A few minutes later, her husband shows up. I go out and detain him. I interview him, and he has a huge red welt on his forehead, and a big lump, besides. He said that the two of them had been arguing, when she hauled off and punched him in the forehead. Realizing that things were only going to get worse, he just got the hell out of there.

    I told the husband to just hang out, and then I went back in the house and told the woman, "I'm going to arrest you for domestic assault, but because your kids are in the yard, I'd like to not put you in handcuffs. Nice and easy, let's just walk out to my car."

    She acted like she understood, so out the door we went. At that point, she starts wailing, "Oh hell! He's taking me to jail!!"

    Fine. We'll do it the hard way. I handcuffed her, put her in the car, and off we went to the county jail. She was wailing and crying the entire way, until we got about a half-mile from the jail, when she abruptly turned off the hysterics and said, real calm, "I'm gonna kick your ass."

    I didn't respond, but I thought, Whatever you say, Sybil!"

    /smh...
    Her: I love my computer! All of my friends are in there!
    Me: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about my freezer...
    Her: What?
    Me: What?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Oh okay, thanks. When you say warrant, do you mean search warrant or arrest warrant? What do you mean by 'pop a Frank'?

    If a cop is busy babysitting potential suspects, he may call in his 10-29 to the dispatcher to have them run a wants/warrants check. If they find no wants/warrants they will reply "negative 10-29."

    But if they DO find an outstanding warrant, then they will ask the officer if they are 10-101 (this code varies from department to department) which is code for "I got some private stuff to share, are you in a cornfield?"
    Once the officer indicates it is okay to proceed (10-106) the dispatcher will tell them that there is an outstanding Frank warrant (frank for felony). They do this because if you do it over an open mike, some suspects will bolt. Also, it is confidential information, so it should not be broadcast to everybody at the scene.

    When I refer to a wants/warrant, I am not talking about a search warrant, but instead an arrest warrant.
    Often people 10-29ed during routine traffic stops have FTA warrants (failure to appear) or in some cases they have had felony charges filed against them for a crime.


    Also, some departments have a specific code beside saying "negative 10-29" They may have a code for misdemeanor warrant, and another for misdemeanor warrants. Not all 10-codes are universal.

    When I was with the Sheriffs department we instituted a code 10-3, which was a fancy way of saying "non-emergency traffic STFU." We used it during backup calls and major crisis in the jail as a way to tell people to stay off the air so we could coordinate the emergency at hand (otherwise you had people calling for dumb chit in the middle of a riot or medical emergency.)

  6. #26
    Funny radio story.
    When I was new I called in a "radio check" just to see if my radio was working.
    The guy in Master Control that night was this old asshole named Benson. He would reply "I copy you 2 by 2"

    Well, the proper reply for a radio check is "5 by 5."
    WTF is 2x2?
    But the other officers told me to ask him. So I call him on the intercom and ask what 2 by 2 meant.
    "Too fucking loud, too fucking often!" and he'd hang up abruptly.
    I turned around to find the rest of the officers laughing at my noob mistake.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Rotten View Post
    If a cop is busy babysitting potential suspects, he may call in his 10-29 to the dispatcher to have them run a wants/warrants check. If they find no wants/warrants they will reply "negative 10-29."

    But if they DO find an outstanding warrant, then they will ask the officer if they are 10-101 (this code varies from department to department) which is code for "I got some private stuff to share, are you in a cornfield?"
    Once the officer indicates it is okay to proceed (10-106) the dispatcher will tell them that there is an outstanding Frank warrant (frank for felony). They do this because if you do it over an open mike, some suspects will bolt. Also, it is confidential information, so it should not be broadcast to everybody at the scene.

    hen I refer to a wants/warrant, I am not talking about a search warrant, but instead an arrest warrant.
    Often people 10-29ed during routine traffic stops have FTA warrants (failure to appear) or in some cases they have had felony charges filed against them for a crime.


    Also, some departments have a specific code beside saying "negative 10-29" They may have a code for misdemeanor warrant, and another for misdemeanor warrants. Not all 10-codes are universal.

    When I was with the Sheriffs department we instituted a code 10-3, which was a fancy way of saying "non-emergency traffic STFU." We used it during backup calls and major crisis in the jail as a way to tell people to stay off the air so we could coordinate the emergency at hand (otherwise you had people calling for dumb chit in the middle of a riot or medical emergency.)
    Oh, okay, well the cop cannot ask if there is an arrest warrant, in this case, since he doesn't know who the people are, right?

  8. #28
    Of course he does...he just stopped them, and demanded their ID.
    Guys running around in the night, in a residential neighborhood, wearing ski masks, are probable cause for an FI. A reasonable man would conclude that they were up to no good (possibly burglary).
    He would detain them, ask what they were doing, and 10-29 'em.
    At least the ones he catches.

    Even if they had no ID, he would ask their name & DOB, likely recording that info in the notebook he carries in his shirt pocket.

  9. #29
    Oh okay, i can't see them having id or giving their names until getting to the station though.

  10. #30
    You might think so, but 95% of people just give up their info, when push comes to shove.
    Her: I love my computer! All of my friends are in there!
    Me: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about my freezer...
    Her: What?
    Me: What?

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