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  1. #71
    I talk to my women friends about sex when there's something to talk about - like, if someone needs information or reassurance or something. And, yes, that was probably needed more when we were kids and just figuring everything out, but it's not an unheard of topic of conversation now.

    There are definitely different norms in different social groups, though. And it's interesting to see the dynamics at work when different social groups interact. I have one friend who is very forthright about everything, to the point of possibly never having suffered the burden of an unexpressed thought, and people react to her really differently. If a group is all women and she gets going, the women will generally join in, and there's often a sense of a dam breaking, as if there's stuff they wanted to talk about but hadn't thought they were allowed to. All it takes is one person in the group to throw it off, though - one man, one woman who doesn't seem to approve, whatever - and the silence holds. I think silence is the safe default, for sure.

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayview View Post
    I think possibly people were trying to avoid the reference of it because it's so patently absurd that it's hard to discuss it without insulting the person who seems so fascinated by it.

    Nevertheless, if you think a fairytale about some straight, rich, beautiful, shallow, useless white women in Manhattan contains all you need to know about modern-day sexuality, I'm confused by the point of this thread. Instead of asking us for insight, shouldn't you just pull out your well-worn DVDs of Sex and The City and prepare yourself for epiphany?
    But, it was a quiet fascination. People didn't watch it because of the acting, characters, etc. (OK, maybe a little). They watched it because of the name of the series.
    And, like it or not, women have the tendency to become very jealous of other women's success, and that was the key point of the success of the series: there's this majority of women all over the world who'd love to live in the chic Manhattan, to be useless, to look model-like, to sip pina colada all day long etc.
    In the end I'm stressing that this chick flick called Sex and the City wasn't my cup of tea. My mom loved it, but my sister didn't. I myself am more a Charlie Sheen kind of guy

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken11 View Post
    You know, I'm aware, that impacts to the higher classes of society come from the lower classes of society. And indeed, luckily for you to mention Venetia, for Venetia had the highest prostitute rate in medieval Europe per capita.
    Not sure the prevalence of prostitution has historically been a hallmark of women's sexual empowerment, Ken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken11 View Post
    there's this majority of women all over the world who'd love to live in the chic Manhattan, to be useless, to look model-like, to sip pina colada all day long etc.
    Do you have any evidence to support this besides the moderate success of a 1990's TV show? I assume if it's perceived as every women's dream there must be a ton of other examples.
    "If you don't like my peaches, don't shake my tree."

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Bayview View Post
    There are definitely different norms in different social groups, though. And it's interesting to see the dynamics at work when different social groups interact. I have one friend who is very forthright about everything, to the point of possibly never having suffered the burden of an unexpressed thought, and people react to her really differently. If a group is all women and she gets going, the women will generally join in, and there's often a sense of a dam breaking, as if there's stuff they wanted to talk about but hadn't thought they were allowed to. All it takes is one person in the group to throw it off, though - one man, one woman who doesn't seem to approve, whatever - and the silence holds. I think silence is the safe default, for sure.
    I agree. I think actually things like age, religious upbringing, culture, education level, individual interest and group norms have way more to do with sex-talk than gender.

    When I lived in the Middle East nobody ever - men or women - talked publicly about sexual issues ever...because if you did, you were likely to go to jail. That's an extreme example but a group of church women in America are probably going to be not a hundred miles removed and ultimately public persona and cultural norms feed into what people are comfortable discussing even in an intimate setting to an extent.

    There was a news story a few years ago about the rising epidemic of STD's among elderly people. The reason is pretty clear: Sexual health was never discussed with them. Not in school certainly, but not among their friends in the 1950's either. Apparently a lot of older people are totally unaware of condoms as anything other than contraceptive devices which they then see as irrelevant when they're 85 and can't get pregnant. So, it's safe to assume at least that aspect of sexuality - sexual health - doesn't feature in their conversations a whole lot. On the other hand, it's a fairly normal and not particularly embarrassing topic of discussion for young adults.
    "If you don't like my peaches, don't shake my tree."

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyscars View Post
    Not sure the prevalence of prostitution has historically been a hallmark of women's sexual empowerment, Ken.



    Do you have any evidence to support this besides the moderate success of a 1990's TV show? I assume if it's perceived as every women's dream there must be a ton of other examples.
    The richest patronas of ancient Rome enjoyed such a liberation that they could get to go to sleep with the best gladiators, for example. Not quite prostitution, but close to it. And I'm sure the same was happening during the medieval period; this time the target must've been the chivalrous knights.

    I never said every woman, but the majority of women, at least. If you negate this, you must be poorly informed about the female psyche.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken11 View Post

    I never said every woman, but the majority of women, at least. If you negate this, you must be poorly informed about the female psyche.

    ^^^ From the guy who started a thread about not understanding "the beautiful female soul and spirit."

    Have you gained that much understanding over the past 8 pages? If so, we're some damned good teachers that you've gained that much insight into the beautiful female soul, I guess. You must be a quick study on the female condition.

    Can we give our fine members here a round of applause and shit ton of back-patting?

    (insert canned applause)


    ***
    Regarding historical prostitution as an indicator for sexual liberation, I'd be tempted to think it's indicative of almost the opposite. Prostitution is often a historical indicator of a poorly educated class of women who seemingly have no other recourse to make a living. They've got to put food on the table, and sex sells, so there you have it. The society itself may be sexually libertine, but the women aren't necessarily free to pursue sex for pleasure (and certainly cannot pursue it without suffering repercussions). It's a profession--world's oldest one. And she's likely doing it because she has no other marketable skills and training and can't seem to make a living otherwise.
    Last edited by seigfried007; September 11th, 2019 at 02:47 PM.
    "Ammonia will disinfect sin."
    --adrianhayter

    "Art is life, just add bull****."
    --Chris Miller

  7. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Dluuni View Post
    I'm a romance writer. Not only do my writer friends discuss sex regularly in writing group, but I also have friends who are sex-positive, sex workers, hypersexual, kinky, etc. And I write sweet!
    Romance writers are a different breed. You get into a sci-fi circle or some other genre, and I doubt you'll get the open sex talk. Writers in general tend to be introverts with narrow social circles, so our likelihood of bumping into these conversations is less than what an extroverted group would probably experience. For instance, when I was cashiering, I bumped into a lot more sex talk because I was meeting a lot more people and hanging with a lot more extroverts. But when I'm not working in such a profession, I just don't bump into these sorts of conversations much--because I ain't hanging with much of anyone.

    But for romance writers, sex talk is almost more like casual conversations around the water cooler at work. Ya get that TPS report, mate?
    "Ammonia will disinfect sin."
    --adrianhayter

    "Art is life, just add bull****."
    --Chris Miller

  8. #78
    Sex and the City's popularity was a combination of many things. The sex aspect was only part of the appeal. The main characters struggling to navigate relationships as single thirty-somethings (... or was it forty-somethings?) in New York was another appeal.

    Having each episode's relationship drama framed and summarized by Carrie's sex/opinion column was also a clever part of the show that kept viewers engaged.

    It had sex, comedy, and relationship drama. Its tone fell refreshingly into that loose middle-ground between a sitcom and a soap opera. Given its lack of competition at the time, it would've been hard for a show with all those ingredients not to succeed, IMO.

    (It was also loosely based on a book, which I think is cool. Anytime there's a successful television or film adaptation, I always consider it a validation that books still have an impact—even if they sometimes need a different medium to reach a bigger audience. )

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by seigfried007 View Post
    ^^^ From the guy who started a thread about not understanding "the beautiful female soul and spirit."

    Have you gained that much understanding over the past 8 pages? If so, we're some damned good teachers that you've gained that much insight into the beautiful female soul, I guess. You must be a quick study on the female condition.
    Yes, I find it sex appealing, beautiful, if a girl wants to be a model, for instance, when she knows she could be one. And the jealousy of the girls who haven't got the physique suitable for modeling I find sweet as well as beautiful
    I admit to not being completely honest in my OP when I implied that I didn't know anything about women. Just wanted to get things started in this thread I guess.
    Last edited by Ken11; September 11th, 2019 at 04:23 PM.

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by seigfried007 View Post
    But for romance writers, sex talk is almost more like casual conversations around the water cooler at work. Ya get that TPS report, mate?
    Not really. For one it's not usually personal experience we're talking about: it's relating to how it's written on the page. I can talk until the cows come home on how to write a sex scene in fiction, but talking face to face over personal experience...? It crosses a line I don't like. It's a bit like covering the BDSM lifestyle, where assumptions are made that you must be into it in the bedroom as the author. I get asked it a lot, and most times I'll back away from answering questions like that. The only time I do answer is when it comes from someone in the lifestyle. Most times they're not asking to know personal detail on my sex life and have a giggle, they're asking where and how I know the lifestyle in general and can I portray it well. And then it's like respecting anyone who's lifestyle you're stepping into: you tell them your source and experience: and for me, I use a consultant who teaches BDSM and who has been in the lifestyle for over two decades.
    "You don't wanna ride the bus like this,"

    Mike Posner.

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