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Thread: Sensitivity Readers

  1. #81
    The Fox Smith's Avatar
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    By... going after white people? If the problem with racism is that race doesn't actually matter (which is a can of worms when you get into the realm of medicine), shouldn't we encourage this crazy thing where something deeper than the melatonin matters, and that's what readers bond over? Not spreading some leftist ideological bullshit about race and power (the latter of which also featured in that article) that isn't any better than it's alt-right counter-part because it makes THE SAME FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE?

    Let me tell you. I didn't give a damn that the main character was a black guy in the Nazi zombie movie 'Overlord', because there were no political messages that had to make me care. That's just how it was. And the movie was clearly not meant to perfectly represent the United States Airborne or even WWII for that matter, because, you know, it had zombies in it. I also didn't give a damn that Will Smith was black in ANY movie he was ever in, and the same goes for Denzel Washington.

    And judging from her poor reading of Lord of the Rings and Narnia, it either sounds like she wants to be a victim and is manufacturing ways of being one, or she deluded herself by accident.

    How do you even excuse missing the White Witch when it's in the title lol?

    By the way, simply saying "I picked up fast that in most of the books I wanted to read... the brown people were all coded as evil. The people who looked like me were always the villains." doesn't make it true. Incantations don't work. Sources and evidence do. And so far her track record would apparently be forgetting Saruman, not knowing Sauron was called the Dark Lord because of LIGHT VERSUS DARKNESS, not because he's black (he actually used to be an elf), and thinking that the orcs were black people, just to name a few.

    I must say that the resemblance between her and Peter Jackson's orcs is striking. They're almost indistinguishable. Pfft.

    She's ridiculous, but fortunately still a perfect demonstration of what I've been saying for a long time. It's leftist ideology moving into other areas of entertainment. Not benign "social mores and changes in culture" just randomly coming out of the ether. I've seen this same pattern, the same arguments, the same disguised, racist word-vomit in video game journalism, the video game industry, the comic book industry, and anime. This isn't any different. It's the racism of political correctness, and if you say otherwise you're a malignant peddler of dishonesty, because you literally need to look no further than a Google search and compare the thousands of articles you'll find with this, and Ctrl+f for key words and phrases.

    1. Race will feature prominently, and white people will be a problem. They will make race not matter by making it matter.

    2. Black people are victims.

    3. Collectivist philosophy. (groups will be seen and treated as monoliths)

    4. Mysterious, unsourced, unsubstantiated claims about a systemic boogeyman. (patriarchy, racism in the publishing industry)

    5. Power. (the only thing that's real in the post-modernist world view)
    Last edited by Smith; January 15th, 2019 at 06:10 AM.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by sigmadog View Post
    Thanks for bringing the conversation to peak stupid.

    Edit to Add: Oh, and congratulations for belittling a point of view via ad hominem arguments. You might wish to hire a sensitivity reader when posting to WF. -- and, please, KMA.
    Nothing ad hominem in the least: I am saying your argument is stupid, not that you are.

    ICYMI: I was merely pointing out comparing the values of 2018 to the values of bygone eras for the purposes of dismissing modern day issues is a well-trodden and thoroughly discredited argument by reference to those who use it. If you need me to explain why it's discredited I sure can, but I wouldn't want you to feel belittled.

    Ad hominem would be something personal, like, I dunno...ending a post with "kiss my ass".

    I will leave your cutting-edge points of view soundly unblemished moving forward.

  3. #83
    Global Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    By... going after white people? If the problem with racism is that race doesn't actually matter (which is a can of worms when you get into the realm of medicine), shouldn't we encourage this crazy thing where something deeper than the melatonin matters, and that's what readers bond over? Not spreading some leftist ideological bullshit that isn't any better than it's alt-right counter-part because it makes THE SAME FUNDAMENTAL MISTAKE?

    Let me tell you. I didn't give a damn that the main character was a black guy in the Nazi zombie movie 'Overlord', because there were no political messages that had to make me care. That's just how it was. And the movie was clearly not meant to perfectly represent the United States Airborne or even WWII for that matter, because, you know, it had zombies in it. I also didn't give a damn that Will Smith was black in ANY movie he was ever in, and the same goes for Denzel Washington.

    And judging from her poor reading of Lord of the Rings and Narnia, it either sounds like she wants to be a victim and is manufacturing ways of being one, or she deluded herself by accident.

    By the way, simply saying "I picked up fast that in most of the books I wanted to read... the brown people were all coded as evil. The people who looked like me were always the villains." doesn't make it true. Incantations don't work. Sources and evidence do. And so far her track record would apparently be forgetting Saruman and thinking that the orcs were black people, just to name a few.

    I must say that the resemblance between her and Peter Jackson's orcs is striking. They're almost indistinguishable.

    She's ridiculous, but fortunately still a perfect demonstration of what I've been saying for a long time. It's leftist ideology moving into other areas of entertainment. Not benign "social mores and changes in culture" just randomly coming out of the ether.
    It’s been awhile since I read LoTR, and I’m no expert on the mythology, but it seems these are the only people of color in the novels, and they are aligned with Sauron: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Haradrim


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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Squalid Glass View Post
    It’s been awhile since I read LoTR, and I’m no expert on the mythology, but it seems these are the only people of color in the novels, and they are aligned with Sauron: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Haradrim


    In Narnia the Calormens are Persians/Arabs in all but name: Turbans, weaponry, skin-color, language. Oh and they are evil as shit, naturally.

    Victorian perspective, so no big deal, but the thought that anybody whose name is not Ann Coulter would be writing that crap today is ridiculous.

  5. #85
    Global Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    Gotcha. I hadn’t read Narnia since I was a child, so I was clueless about that one.
    "I don't do anything with my life except romanticize and decay with indecision."

    "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing."

  6. #86
    The Fox Smith's Avatar
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    So what?

    The only brown people (Persians) in 300 were the bad guys because it was written from the perspective of the Spartans. Is that a problem?

    I just *love* the way we're assuming the motivations and intent and bias of Tolkien.
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  7. #87
    Global Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    That's where you are missing the point, Smith. We're not assuming Tolkien or anyone else's intent. Tolkien, from what I remember, was against racism and bigotry. So was Twain. The point is that even a well-meaning person can overlook things that aren't concerns of theirs but that are concerns of others. It seems like a sensitivity writer would be a good tool for helping the writer see their blind spots. I don't see how that can hurt.

    Also, these examples kind of disprove your very passionate argument that the writer in question misread those books. Clearly she was aware of some things you missed. It was important to her, so she noticed it. It wasn't important to you, so you didn't. That kind of proves the point.

    Oh, also:

    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    5. Power. (the only thing that's real in the post-modernist world view)
    Is that you, Jordan Peterson?
    "I don't do anything with my life except romanticize and decay with indecision."

    "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing."

  8. #88
    The Fox Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squalid Glass View Post
    That's where you are missing the point, Smith. We're not assuming Tolkien or anyone else's intent. Tolkien, from what I remember, was against racism and bigotry. So was Twain. The point is that even a well-meaning person can overlook things that aren't concerns of theirs but that are concerns of others. It seems like a sensitivity writer would be a good tool for helping the writer see their blind spots. I don't see how that can hurt.
    Then I don't see what the point of this conversation is. I care about intent and motivation. If I didn't, I'd get salty whenever a white person is the bad guy, because it's all about ME and how I *feel* about it.

    It doesn't sound like Clayton's intention here is to help anybody see their blind spots, unless by "blind spots" you mean not sharing her political worldview. She's just obsessed and possessed by race, and I've said that this is one of the fundamental problems I take with her ideology.

    This had nothing to do with factual accuracy. Just like I'd figured. There are already technical advisers for anything and everything under the sun. It wouldn't have made sense to create an entire new job with a new name that literally does the exact same thing, and only somebody absolutely ignorant of the current political landscape would use the word "sensitivity" in the title of the job.

    As we can see, Clayton is the poster-child of what this is all really about.

    Is that you, Jordan Peterson?
    Is that supposed to be a criticism?
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  9. #89
    Global Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    Then I don't see what the point of this conversation is.

    It doesn't sound like Clayton's intention here is to help anybody see their blind spots, unless by "blind spots" you mean not sharing her political worldview. She's just obsessed and possessed by race, and I've said that this is one of the fundamental problems I take with her ideology.




    Is that supposed to be a criticism?
    Don't you think you're kind of being a bit obtuse here? You are assuming that she's obsessed and possessed when everything she has said points to her having experienced pain and now she is trying to help others not experience it. Were she "possessed and obsessed" with pushing an ideology on the world, I would think her strategy would be a bit more combative than being a volunteer beta reader with a specialty in seeing racial oversights.

    And no, I'm genuinely curious if you are Jordan Peterson because you're talking just like him.
    "I don't do anything with my life except romanticize and decay with indecision."

    "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing."

  10. #90
    The Fox Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squalid Glass View Post
    Don't you think you're kind of being a bit obtuse here? You are assuming that she's obsessed and possessed when everything she has said points to her having experienced pain and now she is trying to help others not experience it. Were she "possessed and obsessed" with pushing an ideology on the world, I would think her strategy would be a bit more combative than being a volunteer beta reader with a specialty in seeing racial oversights.
    That isn't what I took away from this at all. Frustrating, but also interesting how we apparently read the same article.

    Maybe I am assuming, but I've quoted directly from the article, provided my arguments, and it's the same exact rhetoric and terminology that's pushed by the Left that I've watched destroy my hobbies for the past few years. I'm feeling confident.

    I don't want politics in the publishing industry. I'm not interested in paying for it or by any means approving of anybody who does. People are free to do what they want of course, but now I'm counting down the days until this becomes a mandatory stepping stone in the publishing industry. This is how these things start. With an advocacy group like this one.

    She'd be more combative if you expect political activists to have the light-touch equivalent to a sledgehammer.
    Last edited by Smith; January 15th, 2019 at 06:42 AM.
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