Brexit. Discussion Only. - Page 37


Page 37 of 39 FirstFirst ... 272930313233343536373839 LastLast
Results 361 to 370 of 385

Thread: Brexit. Discussion Only.

  1. #361
    It's not right or left wing that worries me, but the populism part, which isn't synonymous with democracy.

    Break up of the Union is on the cards anyway, but it seems Brexit will speed it up a decade or two. Regardless, various analysts think the economy will just be a bit weaker in the long term (assuming an orderly brexit), but i'm sure some businesses and individuals will benefit.

    But sure, these things might not worry some people.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by epimetheus View Post
    It's not right or left wing that worries me, but the populism part, which isn't synonymous with democracy.

    Break up of the Union is on the cards anyway, but it seems Brexit will speed it up a decade or two. Regardless, various analysts think the economy will just be a bit weaker in the long term (assuming an orderly brexit), but i'm sure some businesses and individuals will benefit.

    But sure, these things might not worry some people.
    Agreed but what can you do? If you believe in democracy then you have to accept the result and abide by it. Not try and make a mess of everything by whining about something else.

    I live in a country which will be devastated by the political class backing the wrong horse when the UK leaves. But I realise this was going to happen anyway and nearly did 11 years ago. Except when it falls apart the 'other way' than Brexit the results will be far worse than those from Brexit.

    We can all hope only good things happen and the naughty man stays away.

    Just get on with it and leave it behind. There is always something else around the corner good or bad. But you will never know unless you get going and go around the corner!

    Stand still and your a sitting duck for the bad things.

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Biro View Post
    Agreed but what can you do? If you believe in democracy then you have to accept the result and abide by it. Not try and make a mess of everything by whining about something else.
    There are still legitimate choices to be made: the deal we leave with will have a big effect on the next few decades. Some of what we see in Parliament is people just throwing a spanner in the works, but there are lots of genuine decisions which need to be made, and unless we get another referendum, Parliament will have to make them.

    The whining will never stop: it's not a partisan thing, just human nature. We voted to join the EEC, but people were whining about it for decades. If remain had won, brexiteers wouldn't have shut up: and nor should they, a plurality of voices is part of democracy. And it is perhaps the most British of things to bitterly complain about something while doing absolutely nothing about it.

  4. #364
    Let us just leave the sound bites to one side for a moment.

    Dave put us up for this stupid Referendum to get his party back in power. This is the country who voted for Boaty McBoatface. This is the country that has suffered a decade of Tory austerity. This is the country that is still fighting the Second World war. This is the country that is preposterously racist. This is the country whose newspapers are owned by very wealthy foreigners that have waged long term psychological warfare on our citizens. Of course we are going to vote to leave. The trouble is the cost of leaving is the end of the UK. It is that simple. Which is why we have spent three years going round in circles. The only way we can leave is to force the EU to push us out. What a magnificent triumph for democracy that will be. And such a dramatic change to our lives should be subject to a confirmatory vote. Not to be left to a bunch of frustrated racists without a mandate.

    In these past three years a lot of interesting things have come to light. All of the Leave sound-bites have proven to be rubbish or outright lies. There is a lot of evidence pointing to foreign interference and there is a resurgence of bigotry.

    We cannot return this country to the halcyon days of our youth. We can only hand it on to the next generation. Brexit will take decades to sort out. Our children are not going to thank us for this mess.

    Democracy is far from perfect, it is the best we have. Hitler is not the only monster who rose to power via democracy. This is not in the same league but it is still a mistake and it is not too late to fix it. Mind you, even this dance of daftness has already damaged our economy, reputation and prospects.

    Leaving may not hurt you personally, it is going to wreck a hell of a lot other people's lives. This is not some academic exercise, it will have very serious results. I ask you to consider if the result is worth the price.
    Quote Originally Posted by Biro View Post
    The people were asked and given a chance to vote.

    What their opinions and decisions of whether to stay or to leave were probably already made long before all the propaganda started. Whether the decision to leave is better for some people or not so good for others is irrelevant as there will always be winners and losers in all decisions whatever they are.

    Who is right and who is wrong is also totally irrelevant as everything changes with time regardless of decisions made.

    The point is the people were asked a question which was quite simple and they gave their answer.

    If you do not act on that answer you are in big trouble, not just now but forever as long as those people are still living on both sides of the fence. This is because you will never be trusted or be able to regain their trust again.

    Parliament and it's process will be deemed to be rotten and corrupt by the population and will never be trusted on anything by all people.

    What you end up with is a population of people who see that those in charge are not interested in acting on the peoples decisions when voting. So then next time there is a vote, the only people who participate (very few) are the ones who are trying to gain power for their own means and not for the good of the people or country.

    The only way this can be stopped will be to get the masses out voting again which will never happen and those who have gained power will put in measures to stop this ever happening. A simple fixed term Parliament is one example which becomes longer and longer.

    The result is through not acting on the peoples decision whatever it is, you will in fact destroy the democratic process. There are lots of examples around the world of this and none of them are what you call great places.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by bazz cargo View Post
    Let us just leave the sound bites to one side for a moment.

    Dave put us up for this stupid Referendum to get his party back in power. This is the country who voted for Boaty McBoatface. This is the country that has suffered a decade of Tory austerity. This is the country that is still fighting the Second World war. This is the country that is preposterously racist. This is the country whose newspapers are owned by very wealthy foreigners that have waged long term psychological warfare on our citizens. Of course we are going to vote to leave. The trouble is the cost of leaving is the end of the UK. It is that simple. Which is why we have spent three years going round in circles. The only way we can leave is to force the EU to push us out. What a magnificent triumph for democracy that will be. And such a dramatic change to our lives should be subject to a confirmatory vote. Not to be left to a bunch of frustrated racists without a mandate.

    In these past three years a lot of interesting things have come to light. All of the Leave sound-bites have proven to be rubbish or outright lies. There is a lot of evidence pointing to foreign interference and there is a resurgence of bigotry.

    We cannot return this country to the halcyon days of our youth. We can only hand it on to the next generation. Brexit will take decades to sort out. Our children are not going to thank us for this mess.

    Democracy is far from perfect, it is the best we have. Hitler is not the only monster who rose to power via democracy. This is not in the same league but it is still a mistake and it is not too late to fix it. Mind you, even this dance of daftness has already damaged our economy, reputation and prospects.

    Leaving may not hurt you personally, it is going to wreck a hell of a lot other people's lives. This is not some academic exercise, it will have very serious results. I ask you to consider if the result is worth the price.


    Well the Brexit election came and went and the result was............
    Last edited by Biro; December 13th, 2019 at 06:03 AM.

  6. #366
    He that walk with me through the valley of death shall hear no evil or speak no truth
    The only one who can heal you is you.




  7. #367
    So Bazz, what are you going to do now?

  8. #368
    I think we should now have a referendum about having another referendum
    The only one who can heal you is you.




  9. #369
    It's not right or left wing that worries me, but the populism part, which isn't synonymous with democracy.
    I don't think this is true. Many tyrants are only able to rise to power because of democracy. If it wasn't for the popular vote, they would have been stymied by a hostile oligarchy. Napoleon Bonaparte is a prime example of this. It arguably isn't compatible with Republicanism but Republicanism is an ideological nonsequitur regardless. Democracy isn't better or worse than any other form of government anyways. Outsource a tiny amount of power to many different people, or a lot of power to a few specific people? There's really no distinction unless the 'popular vote' has some inherent moral capacity that the elites lack. And quite frankly, I don't believe they do. Modern unions are a prime example of this. An evil man will abuse his power whether he's given it over one man or a million men. And if a million evil men are given a little power, it isn't any better than giving it all to one man.
    Dead by Dawn!

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by BornForBurning View Post
    I don't think this is true. Many tyrants are only able to rise to power because of democracy. If it wasn't for the popular vote, they would have been stymied by a hostile oligarchy. Napoleon Bonaparte is a prime example of this. It arguably isn't compatible with Republicanism but Republicanism is an ideological nonsequitur regardless. Democracy isn't better or worse than any other form of government anyways. Outsource a tiny amount of power to many different people, or a lot of power to a few specific people? There's really no distinction unless the 'popular vote' has some inherent moral capacity that the elites lack. And quite frankly, I don't believe they do. Modern unions are a prime example of this. An evil man will abuse his power whether he's given it over one man or a million men. And if a million evil men are given a little power, it isn't any better than giving it all to one man.
    But in a democracy you usually get the chance to remove him after a few years by voting again.

    The alternative man in this election was seen as a terrorist supporter and extreme. All by his own doings. You are judged by the company you keep.

    The leaders of the EU are seen in just a bad light for different reasons. The difference is in the UK they were given the chance to remove the person they disliked for his actions or beliefs. With the EU the system is set so you can never remove such people if you think same of them.

    Democracy has to be seen to work. The Europeans have always had different ways regards leaders. Perhaps that's why they have such turbulent histories. Look at the French now.

    I live in a country where they fought for independance and then fought each other for the type of system they wanted. The got the worse of the worse where today the end up with the supposedly perfect system.

    'Proportional Representation' .........A system so democratic that everyone gets a piece of the action because that's only fair? What you end up with is that every politician is exactly the same and sings from the same hymn sheet..........Their own!!!............ to get a lucrative paid job!.........And nothing ever changes or gets done.

    The country has ended up without a proper economy after 100 years. The economy is based on what multi-nationals hand out to it. The country is totally addicted to EU money and jumps to every EU decision. ............That money by the way was the UK's hard earned money stolen from them to feed the EU.

    Every piece of daily propaganda here is EU biased and because they sense and know there is huge objection coming from the people. The government now is trying to bring in extreme hate speech laws to silence any opposition.

    The UK has been really lucky and hopefully escaped and couldn't have done this without the chance to vote. ..........Democracy.
    Last edited by Biro; December 14th, 2019 at 08:18 AM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
This website uses cookies
We use cookies to store session information to facilitate remembering your login information, to allow you to save website preferences, to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.