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  1. #341
    Beta Reader Princesisto's Avatar
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    Well, our British colleagues, BoJo has got you a deal Brexit that looks suspiciously like Theresa May's last attempt, without the backstop and with some cleverly-phrased restating of certain provisions to make British nationalists feel good, and even got it approved for second reading, although Parliament refused to be stampeded into approving it in four days . . .

    Problem solved or no?

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Princesisto View Post
    Well, our British colleagues, BoJo has got you a deal Brexit that looks suspiciously like Theresa May's last attempt, without the backstop and with some cleverly-phrased restating of certain provisions to make British nationalists feel good, and even got it approved for second reading, although Parliament refused to be stampeded into approving it in four days . . .

    Problem solved or no?
    No, not solved. It has been passed because many want to tack on amendments. One of the more controversial ones is that any final parliamentary vote will be subject to another referendum. Although that still looks fairly unlikely, opinion has slowly solidified behind that option - but probably with insufficient numbers. Also, there is still very strong support for a customs union to be maintained. I don't actually think there will be a resolution without a general election first, and possibly not then. All three options are on the table still: (1) hard Brexit (no deal), (2) soft(ish) Brexit (with customs union and/or single market), (3) scrap Brexit. At the moment a version of option (2) looks the most likely but it can fluctuate regularly - sometimes daily. Not sure about the backstop when Bairstow is a perfectly good wicketkeeper.


  3. #343
    There is so much hatred between some of the 'Leave' and 'Remain' brigade if it is not resolved shortly it will not only break Britain it will break families and friends. If the country is in possession of the 'facts' and as the politicians can't agree, why don't they hold another referendum.

    What saddens me is that when we were discussing Boris's shenanigans over lying to the Queen and proroguing Parliament, our friends of 40 years who live in Britain yet jolly in Portugal, spat at us in a venomous tone: YOU have no right to an opinion as you don't live in Britain any more! We were floored. Needless to say we will be distancing ourselves from this type of person. I respect we have differences but this misplaced patriotism is beyond me.
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  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by PiP View Post
    There is so much hatred between some of the 'Leave' and 'Remain' brigade if it is not resolved shortly it will not only break Britain it will break families and friends. If the country is in possession of the 'facts' and as the politicians can't agree, why don't they hold another referendum.

    What saddens me is that when we were discussing Boris's shenanigans over lying to the Queen and proroguing Parliament, our friends of 40 years who live in Britain yet jolly in Portugal, spat at us in a venomous tone: YOU have no right to an opinion as you don't live in Britain any more! We were floored. Needless to say we will be distancing ourselves from this type of person. I respect we have differences but this misplaced patriotism is beyond me.
    It's only patriotism in the sense that I might slit my wrists in order to claim autonomy for my body.
    I haven't yet heard one good argument for Brexit based on logic, except from the very rich who will (and already have) made a lot of money through shorting the pound on the exchange markets. I've heard a few apparent reasonable arguments, but when you drill down to the details they are heavily based on misinformation. The only seemingly reasonable arguments are based on emotion which, in turn, are largely based on the above misinformation.

    The UK currently has the best deal in the EU - I've seen it jokingly labelled as Germany-plus-plus. Although it is one of the net contributors, this is more than offset by rebates and trading benefits. A good few years contributions have already been used to shore up the pound and to prepare for leaving.

    I wouldn't normally advocate violence, but if someone took out the entire inner cabinet, I ... let's say I wouldn't be particularly upset.


  5. #345
    Beta Reader Princesisto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiP View Post
    What saddens me is that when we were discussing Boris's shenanigans over lying to the Queen and proroguing Parliament, our friends of 40 years who live in Britain yet jolly in Portugal, spat at us in a venomous tone: YOU have no right to an opinion as you don't live in Britain any more!
    Diga-lhes ir o inferno!

  6. #346
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  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Istine View Post
    I haven't yet heard one good argument for Brexit based on logic.
    Truth. Brexit seems to be based on Trumpian logic.

  8. #348
    Beta Reader Princesisto's Avatar
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    I think that the Brexit story had a happy ending. The people are going to get a chance to decide the Brexit matter finally, either by voting Conservative in a general election (Boris' Brexit deal) or by voting almost anyone else and having a new referendum to decide.

    If they vote Liberal Democratic or Brexit Party, either they get a new referendum or make a protest vote (the Liberal Democrats want no Brexit at all but they cannot get a majority by themselves and they have said that they will accept a new referendum if they don't: Brexiteers want a no-deal Brexit but they also cannot get a majority by themselves and no one else will vote with them in Parliament for a no-deal Brexit, if they get any seats there this time).

    As if anyone cared, in my novel manuscript, the result of the election is that all Parties except Conservatives and Brexit form a "Rainbow Coalition Government" (red, yellow, green, blue) when no one wins a majority, which holds a new referendum: but the people vote for Brexit again and Britain leaves with no deal.

    As BBC reports, every option is still possible from a no-deal Brexit to no Brexit at all, or anything in-between. I humbly submit that what the people of Britain and Europe want is a final decision implemented: almost no matter what it is and that looks like what will happen.

    Britons?

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Princesisto View Post
    I think that the Brexit story had a happy ending. The people are going to get a chance to decide the Brexit matter finally, either by voting Conservative in a general election (Boris' Brexit deal) or by voting almost anyone else and having a new referendum to decide.

    If they vote Liberal Democratic or Brexit Party, either they get a new referendum or make a protest vote (the Liberal Democrats want no Brexit at all but they cannot get a majority by themselves and they have said that they will accept a new referendum if they don't: Brexiteers want a no-deal Brexit but they also cannot get a majority by themselves and no one else will vote with them in Parliament for a no-deal Brexit, if they get any seats there this time).

    As if anyone cared, in my novel manuscript, the result of the election is that all Parties except Conservatives and Brexit form a "Rainbow Coalition Government" (red, yellow, green, blue) when no one wins a majority, which holds a new referendum: but the people vote for Brexit again and Britain leaves with no deal.

    As BBC reports, every option is still possible from a no-deal Brexit to no Brexit at all, or anything in-between. I humbly submit that what the people of Britain and Europe want is a final decision implemented: almost no matter what it is and that looks like what will happen.

    Britons?
    It's not quite that simple for several reasons:

    (1) We have a first past the post voting system, so the allegiances of MPs in parliament doesn't necessarily reflect the overall voting pattern - we've had majority governments who have won only 35% of the popular vote in the past.

    (2) Although Brexit is a major issue, the forthcoming election is about all the other issues too. It's quite possible for someone to agree with a particular party on everything - except that party's Brexit policy.

    If this election ends up with no party having an overall majority, this could rumble on and on. Even if we end up leaving soon, the negotiations will take years - trade deals are like that. However, I believe there is a "standstill period" agreed for an extendable year while they thrash out details.


  10. #350
    I no longer care either way but Brexit will break Britain. I just feel so sorry for Northern Ireland who never voted to leave and hope they can resolve the border issue without the return of bloodshed. As for Scotland, again they never voted to leave so I would not blame them if they break away from the UK, go independent so they can remain in Europe.

    It sounds simple on paper but to implement ... if it had been that simple to extract GB from the EU, we would have left a couple of years ago.

    It has already fractured families and friends and unhealthy divides in opinion.
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