Pel's October 2018 PiP Challeneg - Page 2

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  1. #11
    YES, 8 feet. . .but WHERE within each foot does the stress lie? In the iamb, the stress is in the SECOND position. Period. If it is not--that poetic foot is of a different order, and I am simply not prepared to turn this into a detailed run-down on metrics in English. That would be appropriate elsewhere, Pel..

    The first stanza of your revision #2

    No old cloak, can your beaut-y hide....four STRESSES, but the iambic beat is broken. This one is very close; let it go

    Sleep with me a dress I’ll provide....if you had "Sleep with me a dress I will provide", it would be IAMBIC TETRAMETER


    Tis true, I’ve tossed a-cross the room.....iambic tetrameter

    but shan’t e-ver do that to you.....1ambic tetrameter, but 'iffy'. Some would say the first "eh" of 'ever' should be stressed

    If we were face-to-face and could HEAR each other, we could sort this out pretty quickly. Frustrating, doing it in print.



    ________________________________________________

    "I believe in nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of the imagination". Keats, ​Letters

    "Coleridge would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the penetralium of mystery, because of an irritable reaching after fact and reason." Keats, Letters

    "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main . . . any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls -- it tolls for thee. " John Donne, Meditation XVII

  2. #12
    I remember a story about people who were given rules to design a horse and ended up with a camel. I need a break from rules because right now that's all I'm encountering here. I know and firmly believe that this is all meant to help me and it is, though not as much as you hoped for, but more than I believed.
    "Illegitimi non carborundum " Vinegar' Joe Stilwell

    "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." Martin Luther King Jr.

    What you learn in life is important, those you help learn, are more important.

    "They can because they think they can."
    ​Virgil

  3. #13
    You might be amused (even encouraged) by just the first couple of chapters of Charles Dickens' Hard Times​, which among other things is a downright vicious slam at the British educational system in his day. There is a hilarious attempt at 'defining' a horse early in the novel. It's probably online.

    I write free verse, which means I have to re-define FORM with every poem I write. There is, however, an extraordinary rhythmic beauty to a sonnet, for example, written in conformity to the 'rules' of iambic pentameter, but written with such skill that the 'conformity' seems to disappear in the emotion of the piece. Shakespeare's Sonnet 18 is a superb example.



    ________________________________________________

    "I believe in nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of the imagination". Keats, ​Letters

    "Coleridge would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the penetralium of mystery, because of an irritable reaching after fact and reason." Keats, Letters

    "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main . . . any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls -- it tolls for thee. " John Donne, Meditation XVII

  4. #14
    It is online and poor girl number twenty and yes it's a slam on education, which ironically enough I was a history and elementary teacher for a while in my youth,
    "Illegitimi non carborundum " Vinegar' Joe Stilwell

    "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." Martin Luther King Jr.

    What you learn in life is important, those you help learn, are more important.

    "They can because they think they can."
    ​Virgil

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelwrath View Post
    First, per this site https://www.poetrysoup.com/syllables...e_counter.aspx every line has 8 syllables, the definition of iambic tetrameter, that's the same site I used on Marlow's poem. How can the site count wrong?
    Pel, I hope you will leave the syllable counters be for what they are soon. I want to make ONE remark about them here. PoetrySoup has the worst syllable counter in the whole universe. I know that because I have been a member of the site for years now, and no one there uses it. If you feel you need to use one, then please use this one:
    https://www.howmanysyllables.com/

    Also, no counter site will give you the same amount of syllables. Why? Because counting syllables is different in every country and in every region. I had already given you a small example with the word iamb. You say i-amb, I say yamb. And THAT is why syllable counters all give you different results.

    Kick'em and rely on your own common sense.

  6. #16
    Darren;
    Thanks for the tip about syllable counters, however right now they are the closest I can come to stresses. I’ll check that site out, thanks.
    So far and with good reason, my poem, in all it’s version has had one comment about the poetry, the words and or emotions they evoke. That I wrote about a book, which I did.
    "Illegitimi non carborundum " Vinegar' Joe Stilwell

    "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." Martin Luther King Jr.

    What you learn in life is important, those you help learn, are more important.

    "They can because they think they can."
    ​Virgil

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelwrath View Post
    Revision 2

    Love for my Flock

    No old cloak, can your beauty hide
    Sleep with me a dress I’ll provide.
    Tis true, I’ve tossed across the room
    but shan’t ever do that to you.

    It matters not that we’ve just met.
    I’m Tristan and you Isolde.
    The petulance of your challenge
    You’ll never leave me unbalanced.

    My eyes rain on a sunny day
    Emotions you keep on display.
    Softly I dog-ear your bottom.
    You’re never sad or postpartum.

    We know the world, we’ve been around
    our feelings are nothing profound.
    When we're done enjoying ourselves
    You’ll be with others; on a shelf.

    Ok Pel,

    about your poem itself. I am going to be honest.

    I have a problem with it in the sense that the rhyme feels forced, that is because of the rhyme we are forced to use in the challenge, I understand that fully it makes it complicated doesn't it?
    But the poem is also very telling, in a way that you describe what is being felt without it being easy for us to feel those emotions ourselves.

    You tell me above that it is about a book, and I would have guessed that indeed, ssshhhh, don't explain your poems next time

    And then there is this line:
    You're never sad or postpartum
    That is a strange line. I assume you mean postpartum depression? But postpartum as standalone word only means: after giving birth, and nothing more.

    As a whole, I think it's a great thing, personifying a book and weave a poem with it.
    What would happen if you made the book first person? And let the book tell a story?
    (I'm only thinking aloud now). Like this?

    I'm silk and lace in your two hands
    sit with me, or lie, or stand


    And go from there?
    It's just a suggestion.

  8. #18
    Darren;

    Thanks so much for your comments, not only do they help the poem but they helped me.
    "Illegitimi non carborundum " Vinegar' Joe Stilwell

    "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." Martin Luther King Jr.

    What you learn in life is important, those you help learn, are more important.

    "They can because they think they can."
    ​Virgil

  9. #19
    DARREN -- My careless word choice! I didn't mean that you were neglectful or uncaring about literary theory; I meant that in the act of composing you were not conforming to a preset form, or consciously moulding your words to any theories of "how it should be done>". The old story of ya gotta know all the rules before you can break them.

    [ASIDE: Last night I was helping a young neighbor convert a sheet of passive verbs to active verbs. Quickly came to light she had no clue what a VERB was. Or any OTHER Part of Speech. What should have been five minutes turned into. . . . . . . . . .]


    PEL --- I wrote a poem some years ago in which a piece of paper speaks directly to its writer. It worked very well. It's too long to paste here, but here's the opening, so you can get sense of TONE:


    A PARCHMENT SPEAKS


    I am wrinkled now
    from disuse.

    Once a smooth record,
    a clarion song
    to your petty defeats and major victories,
    my hidden texts ample evidence
    your place in their disjointed world,
    unworthy of your poise and élan vital
    always willing to search for a horizon
    whose liquid smoothness
    better suited your sense of unique design.
    Last edited by clark; October 12th, 2018 at 07:01 PM.



    ________________________________________________

    "I believe in nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of the imagination". Keats, ​Letters

    "Coleridge would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the penetralium of mystery, because of an irritable reaching after fact and reason." Keats, Letters

    "No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main . . . any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls -- it tolls for thee. " John Donne, Meditation XVII

  10. #20
    Darren;

    You're right several are forced due to the required structure and an attempt to bring the emotions into the poem that reading creates.

    I checked the site you recommended and all had 8 syllables except for S2L2 which had 7.

    To you and clark, my apologies if I sounded ungrateful. I was feeling like a dead horse or maybe a better analogy would be the dead man in Murder on the Orient Express.

    I'll get back to working on my poem very soon.
    "Illegitimi non carborundum " Vinegar' Joe Stilwell

    "Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase." Martin Luther King Jr.

    What you learn in life is important, those you help learn, are more important.

    "They can because they think they can."
    ​Virgil

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