What's the key to writing a 'catch-able villain'? - Page 2

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  1. #11
    Okay thanks but the villain has already done this for the first half. And I feel that the villain is already too crazy smart as I cannot find a way for the hero to beat him. He's already smart to the point of impossible of beating and that is my problem. So I feel I have to somehow make him less smart, to be beaten.

  2. #12
    Give the villain a need that is something he wants from the mc. Sounds too basic as advice. But try to use it every time. Place him the villain in danger for wanting it. Kurt Vonnegut once said, your character must always want something even if only it were a glass of water.
    Last edited by Theglasshouse; September 14th, 2018 at 12:34 PM.
    I would follow as in believe in the words of good moral leaders. Rather than the beliefs of oneself.
    The most difficult thing for a writer to comprehend is to experience silence, so speak up. (quoted from a member)

  3. #13
    Okay thanks, but the villain doesn't really want anything from the MC. The villain wants to go on committing crimes against other people and the MC wants to stop him. The villain wants the MC to leave him alone and not catch him, the way I have it so far.

  4. #14
    Member Sir-KP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Okay thanks. I thought of something like this as well, but if the MC did this, I see the lawyer character calling the police and reporting it, in order for his own protection, which would cause the police to investigate, and the MC does not want that though.
    The Lawyer won't be able to call anyone if the MC grabs him outside, kidnaps him, and ties his hands in that secluded room he has no idea where and stays there until he were assassinated (in my version up there).

    The MC and the Hacker are working for law while walking on the opposite of the law in that part of the story.

  5. #15
    Oh okay, but the MC is going to have to let the lawyer go sometime. So when the lawyer is let go, I don't think the MC's story is going to hold water, cause the police and the court are going to think it was too much of a coincidence that the lawyer just so happened to be kidnapped by some person just as the MC exercised his plan to bring the villains down. I think kidnapping the lawyer for an unknown amount of time will create more problems than it solves maybe.

    However, I was told by readers before that the lawyer would not know who is paying him cause the client's payer, would want to remain secret and pay in cash without giving out a name. So if that is true then, and my villain would do that, then the lawyer wouldn't know who he is then.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Okay thanks but the villain has already done this for the first half. And I feel that the villain is already too crazy smart as I cannot find a way for the hero to beat him. He's already smart to the point of impossible of beating and that is my problem. So I feel I have to somehow make him less smart, to be beaten.

    Don't downgrade the villain, upgrade the hero.
    Personally I stop reading or watching a story the minute the plot is advanced simply by a character's stupidity.
    I quit Walking Dead after the first season because it passed this litmus test.
    "Sure, let us into the CDC building even though it's gonna self destruct tomorrow" or "Sure, drive that car with the blaring alarm all the way back to our campsite..."
    To me it is simply lazy writing.
    You are just gonna have to come up with a way for the hero to prevail. Perhaps after being bested so many times he picks up on a habit of the villain's and exploits it in the finale.
    Writing is hard, and surprising a modern audience is even harder.

  7. #17
    Okay thanks. Well I have one idea that might work to make the hero smarter.

    I can only make the hero as smart as myself, and when it comes to finding out the identity of a criminal, I don't even know, it's pretty difficult to do, especially if I am to beat an entire police department at it.

    Earlier in the story when the main character, a cop on duty, arrests the one suspect who has to be freed later, for lack of evidence, he calls for back up, and an officer arrives on back up who was off duty, but was nearby and could see, while driving that the MC could use some help, it looks like.

    So the other officer goes to help him. Now later on, when the MC is trying to figure out who the rest of the organization is but does not know the main villain behind it, or most of the others, the MC could think back to the arrest he made and when he called for back up. He could get the theory that the officer who came to help him who was off duty, was actually part of the gang, and that is why he was there, and that is why he responded to the back up call, so he can get on the case, more and find out what is going on.

    However, is that too clairvoyant of the MC? Is he too psychic for coming up with such a theory? I mean just because a cop is off duty and nearby and responds to your call, that is not enough to make another cop think that the cop must be one of the gang members, does it? It's a huge reach for the MC to reach that far, and then he actually turns out to be right.

    Originally I was going to have the MC find out that the other cop was one of them later, but I could move it to earlier, if it's the only thing that he would have to go on, to find out more.

    That's just one idea, and I don't know if it's the best one there is, since I originally wanted the bad cop to be revealed to the MC later. But would the MC jump to a conclusion like that?

  8. #18
    Maybe you need a 2nd character who helps lead him to the answer.
    If only you had a quirky hacker working for your hero...

  9. #19
    Okay thanks. I was going to have a hacker like we talked about before .

    However, since I was told it is a plot hole, for the villain to give his name to the lawyer while paying him, the hacker, becomes useless now, cause the villain's name will not be in the lawyer's computer files now. That is why I can't use the hacker now it seems, unless he would still be useful to find the villain another way, but I couldn't think of any.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    Oh okay, but the MC is going to have to let the lawyer go sometime. So when the lawyer is let go, I don't think the MC's story is going to hold water, cause the police and the court are going to think it was too much of a coincidence that the lawyer just so happened to be kidnapped by some person just as the MC exercised his plan to bring the villains down. I think kidnapping the lawyer for an unknown amount of time will create more problems than it solves maybe.

    However, I was told by readers before that the lawyer would not know who is paying him cause the client's payer, would want to remain secret and pay in cash without giving out a name. So if that is true then, and my villain would do that, then the lawyer wouldn't know who he is then.
    Hence like I said in my earlier suggestion, buddy. I have tied all loose ends here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir-KP View Post
    - Kidnap the Lawyer in a secluded area and building like untended house or warehouse
    - Threaten the Lawyer with the lives of his relatives (unorthodox way, right?)
    - Lawyer give up, but can't give any information
    - Lawyer gives some of his lawbreaking clients that possibly can link to the gang boss
    - Hacker helps tracing, gain information of the clients, and criminal record
    - MC interrogates these clients, some happen to know the aliases of the gang boss, some ever met him
    - Hacker found the boss through the clues given (aliases, physical feature, surveillance data, previous arrest when the boss was a small-timer, etc.)

    - The next day, the Lawyer and those who MC interrogated 'committed suicide'
    - MC figures that the real sh*t is just about to happen
    In another words sequentially:
    1. MC kidnaps Lawyer, hide him somewhere secluded
    2. MC threatens Lawyer with the lives of his relatives and friends, putting him in hostage situation so he won't do anything stupid
    3. Lawyer honestly have no idea about the Villain, so he gave up the names of a few lawbreaking clients that may have links with Villain
    4. Hacker traces these clients
    5. MC does the leg work interrogating, threatening them, until they shed some clues about Villain
    6. Finally MC and Hacker get enough info about Villain
    7. Suddenly, Lawyer and his interrogated clients were mysteriously assassinated (Villain's men did it)

    So by the end of this part, MC have found out about Villain. Meanwhile, Villain was playing the ball the whole time; he knew what the MC was gonna do and was doing. The death of the Lawyer and the interrogated clients will result no information about the MC's illegal action of kidnapping, threatening, and interrogating. Ironically ties the loose ends for the MC. After this point, it's going to be about MC and Villain.

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