'Staying in Your Lane,' Poetic Voice, and Political Correctness - Page 4

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  1. #31
    When you do something wrong you can't simply say you're sorry and then go ahead and do it again. But what did he do wrong? The shrill voices are not about fairness or common courtesy. And they are insisting you shut up. Or else. This is poetry, not running for office where it's expected you don't reveal too much if you want to win while mouthing whatever constituents' ideals to get yourself elected. Honestly, how can you be honest with this Religious SJW PC Thought Police dictating even how you say things? What sort of poetry comes of that?

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    When you do something wrong you can't simply say you're sorry and then go ahead and do it again. But what did he do wrong? The shrill voices are not about fairness or common courtesy. And they are insisting you shut up. Or else. This is poetry, not running for office where it's expected you don't reveal too much if you want to win while mouthing whatever constituents' ideals to get yourself elected. Honestly, how can you be honest with this Religious SJW PC Thought Police dictating even how you say things? What sort of poetry comes of that?
    I have a response, but I feel like we're moving in a non-productive direction (Shrill voices, Religious SJW PC Thought Police, etc.)

    So I think I'll just refer you to the apology from the writer, in which he says what he's planning to do moving forward. And then I'll bow out.

  3. #33
    .............................................How Dare Wee?

    Langston Hughes
    (1902-1967)

    “An artist must be free to choose what he does, certainly, but he must also never be afraid to do what he might choose”. Langston Hughes

    I wonder what Hughes would bring to the table at this party? A black man who grew up in the Mid-West with his grandmother, lonely…..

    LH - "It was then that books began to happen to me. The wonderful world in books where if people suffered, they suffered in beautiful language.

    He was inspired by Walt Whitman and wanted black writers to be objective about their race. For this he was considered a “racial chauvinist”

    He attended Columbia University and is now listed in “The Academy of American Poets” not “The Academy of Black American Poets”

    LH “My seeking has been to explain and illuminate the negro condition in America and that of all human kind."

    Coincidental titles?

    “I, Too”.........
    by Langston Hughes

    .“How–To”
    ...by Andres Carlson–Wee


    Culled from an Interview with Andres Carlson-Wee

    I’m a frugal man, and for the past ten years I’ve been getting the bulk of my food from dumpsters behind grocery stores, paying minimal rent, and traveling cheap by bicycle and freight train. I used to study wilderness survival, and that brought a kind of primitivism into my life, as well as my writing. Living cheap has allowed me to focus the bulk of my energy on poetry, which has been a great blessing. The NEA grant will allow me to continue this lifestyle, and I’m forever grateful for the support.

    "I hear language more than I see it. I feel it more than I think it. You have to trust that the important stuff is nailed to your poems with the hammer-strikes of emotion and story and image and song."

    __________________________________________________ ______________

    How dare Langston Hughes mingle with the White Social Elite?
    How dare Carlson-Wee rummage through dumpsters for food?

    ........................How dare we make assumptions?
    ............How dare we toss out our crayon box and write in one color?




    https://sonorareview.com/an-interview-with-anders-carlson-wee/
    Last edited by SilverMoon; August 9th, 2018 at 11:16 PM.
    "Don't tell me the moon is shining, show me the glint of light on broken glass."Chekhov

  4. #34
    I read the poem and the news articles, personally,
    I think the editors should apologize for apologizing.
    It was a wonderful piece and I read it as literal. To me,
    the writer was saying be real, own what you are,
    say you sin, say you’re old, don’t beg or look for
    sympathy from those who can’t see you because
    they’re so wrapped up in their own world, thoughts
    and selves.....nor do they care.

    And when did crippled become a bad word? It’s a
    description not demeaning. These days, we like to be
    specific in our terminology...and that’s great but to me,
    it doesn’t matter what word or phrase is used, it’s the
    intention and motivation or ‘meaning’ behind those
    words. The inflection in your voice, even a smile or smirk
    can speak volumes.
    So, I like the poem.
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  5. #35
    One more thing, to those who complain the poet’s white,
    you don’t know where he’s been or who he knows.
    He may have black family, neighbors or maybe he
    knows the person in the poem..... maybe this is a
    conversation they had. There are so mary variables,
    I think it’s immature to judge the poet so harshly.
    Last edited by TuesdayEve; August 12th, 2018 at 01:10 AM.
    VISIT: calens-eden.com
    New poets explore
    Poetry Hill
    Pip Challenge=FUN



  6. #36
    Forum Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    Tuesday, I do agree that the judgment cast upon the writer is misplaced in this case. I also think the instinctual reaction present in a lot of people is valid, considering the long history of oppression and appropriation at the expense of the culture being appropriated.

    I think this case is a great example of what rash judgments can do, and the danger of action without extensive reflection and thought. America right now is a country where the constant tension of differing groups is always threatening to erupt, and I think we all would be better served to take a step back and try to see other viewpoints (provided they are not extreme and violent) before we cast judgment in the court of public opinion.
    "I don't do anything with my life except romanticize and decay with indecision."

    "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing."

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by Sqaulid Glass Tuesday, I do agree that the judgment cast upon the writer is misplaced in this case......I think this case is a great example of what rash judgments can do, and the danger of action without extensive reflection and thought.
    Yes. And to reiterate what I said above more clearly: He was not speaking about a homeless women but himself in the article below.

    Culled from an Interview with Andres Carlson-Wee

    I’m a frugal man, and for the past ten years I’ve been getting the bulk of my food from dumpsters behind grocery stores, paying minimal rent, and traveling cheap by bicycle and freight train. I used to study wilderness survival, and that brought a kind of primitivism into my life, as well as my writing. Living cheap has allowed me to focus the bulk of my energy on poetry, which has been a great blessing. The NEA grant will allow me to continue this lifestyle, and I’m forever grateful for the support.

    "I hear language more than I see it. I feel it more than I think it. You have to trust that the important stuff is nailed to your poems with the hammer-strikes of emotion and story and image andsong."
    Is not language song? Years back "'something" unpleasant had been happening and this black fellow turned to me, shrugged his shoulders and said "Sometimes it jus be dat way". I liked it, it was song-like in its newness for me It stuck with me and was certain I would use it in some writing context which I did - concluding my post above this one.

    I brought Black poet, Langston Hughes, into the picture of my post because he was considered a "racial chauvinist” encouraging black artists to be objective about their race" - keep the ranting at bay. But still we hear the ranting by both blacks and whites - even when it comes to art form.

    Langston dined with white elites. Wee ate garbage. Should Langston have written about "black-eyed peas". Should Wee have written about caviar? They broke the stereotypictal rule. Let's send them to "Poet's Hell for devouring language, digesting it with thought, zeal - winning awards and given grants.

    More or Mo re: AAVE
    A case can be made that these words entering the mainstream is ultimately a
    good thing. It can be viewed as a melding of ideas and worlds, proof that the English language is always changing, and evidence that black people and black culture are becoming more largely accepted. And anyway, don’t black people use “white” slang words, too? Like awesome, and rad, and totes
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-slang-white-people-ruined_us_55ccda07e4b064d5910ac8b3

    It's late. Now, I'm gonna to fry up some chicken and treat myself to watermelon for desert - just like a good white girl....
    Last edited by SilverMoon; August 12th, 2018 at 01:47 AM.
    "Don't tell me the moon is shining, show me the glint of light on broken glass."Chekhov

  8. #38
    I’ll say first that I haven’t read the other comments. I will, but I don’t want them to interrupt my train of thought. The question is important and well placed. The articles are supportive and revealing. I have to agree with both the Times aritcle, that the editors of The Nation did themselves and the author a disfavour by publishing the apology. Imposing such rules on poetry also does poetry a disservice. Enough said. I also agree with the Atlantic article that “Black Vernacular” is not lazy English, it is an alternative form of English. It is the nature of language in general that it evolves, changes, morphs. It only takes a few kilometres for the sound and vocabulary of language to change.

    I am white and grew up in America’s Deep South at a time when the public school system was changing from segregated schools to integrated schools. It took a long time. My entire public education was overshadowed by this cultural shift. By high school, the transition was more or less complete, at least physically, but not without serious growing pains and a lot of tension. I played basketball, and so I had a lot of mixed race contact outside the classroom that was casual and full of physical energy. By my senior year, I was the only white player on the basketball team. For the most part, I was accepted, although it was clear that my upbringing had been very different than most of the other players. They used strong vernacular among themselves, and I, as the minority, found it easier and more productive socially if I emulated their speech. I became bidialectical, as were most of the black players on the team.

    Years later, I wrote a short story about that experience. In the story, I relied heavily on rustic African American dialect that I had become familiar with in high school. The story wasn’t about a bunch of black basketball players, it was about a white basketball player who found himself integrated into the black experience. It never occurred to me that the story might be cultural appropriation, although I was aware that it trod a fine line. The n-word pops up a few times. But the story itself deals, in part, with the question of culturally appropriate language. So I felt okay about it and I still do. but that was nearly 30 years ago that I wrote the story, and the whole issue of cultural appropriation has really come to mainstream public light since then. I sent the story out for awhile, never got it published. But then, as the issue of cultural appropriation became more focused, I stopped sending the story out. To this day, I don’t really know where it stands but have decided that it’s probably best to leave in the bottom drawer and forget about it.
    Last edited by TL Murphy; August 13th, 2018 at 11:12 PM.

  9. #39
    This thread is going nowhere. We need some people who are offended by the poem to make for a lively discussion.

  10. #40
    That's an intetesting comment, O. I'll ignore the inference that you are offended that no one is offended and take your comment at face value. We are all writers here, discussing political correctness in writing. I think it's safe to say that most of us share a somewhat biased view, that the writer should be free to express whatever that writer feels is appropriate and not what the current code of political correctness dictates. I will limit that statement with the exception that freedom of speech does not give someone the right to preach hatred or to contradict historical fact or to spin lies. Beyond that, I would expect most writers would support another writer's right to write whatever they want. It's quite another thing when a publisher decides to publish it. One would hope that publishers of literature make their decisions based on literary merit and not on ideology, and having done so, should stand by their decisions and support their writers. After all, it's easy to be offended. The real danger seems to me to be in being offended, not in offending.

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