Literal Poetry - Page 2


Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33

Thread: Literal Poetry

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by escorial View Post
    Poetry is words about emotions experienced in every aspect of a life...for me it lacks the ability to communicate compared to all other art forms...it has it's place but for me it just doesn't have the wow factor...
    Maybe you just haven’t met the right poem?

  2. #12
    "They don't understand what they are writing, yet still they have the ability to write that which they do not understand"

    Darkin, if you read my post again you will see that Is not what I said or even close. What I said was, those who say they are.writing literally do not undrrstand the deeper layers of what they are saying. In other words, they don't acknowledge the levels of symbolism inherent in their words. I can say '"It's a sunny day." And perhaps I intend that to mean there is blue sky above me. But I can't deny that the phrase can be interpreted on symbolic levels which may be revealed in a greater context. It could also mean "life is good" or "the future is bright" or " I've overcome depression" or any number of things.

  3. #13
    The word/term ‘sunset’ is itself a metaphor.
    There was never a great genius without a trace of madness. Attributed to Aristotle.

  4. #14
    Deeper layers which are assigned by the reader, not the writer. The writer understands exactly what they are saying within the established parameters of their piece. The reader, just like the writer needs to acknowledge that the writer, as a reader, is just as entitled to their interpretation of a given work. The concise term was expressing, by its first definition: explicit, firmly, directly. By the use of the term expressing, it is an unconscious assignment of the reader's opinion to the writer, not an acknowledgement of the writer's own observations as valid insight.

    Symbolism is entirely arbitary, one symbol can have upwards of a hundred different and often contradictory meanings. The reader has a right to their opinion, but without quantifiable, allegorical parallels, such as a direct fractal overlay, e.g. (the effects of removing the primary colour blue from the colour spectrum) there is little logic and no measurable uniformity in symbolism. It is an ineffective form of communication, lending itself to rampant confusion. Sunset is a metaphor for how many different things...People get so lost in the minutiae, that any word can arguably mean anything. Effective communication breaks down.

    Take a look at the case of Leonard Dawe, who was investigated for treason by MI5 because words codified for the D-Day invasion plan turned up in his crossword puzzles. The word was merely the embodiment of its definition, a crossword puzzle clue, not a coded message.

    If a reader finds deeper meaning, great, but without tangible parallels to established patterns opinion remains opinion. Is a writer, who does not actively seek to use a widely understood element like metaphor any less able to communicate effectively, than those who actively use the tool? Is their understanding found wanting, when compared to those who see profound metaphor in a word as mundane as sunset?

    Borrowing a page from the Vulcans:

    Lt. Saavik to Spock in The Wrath of Khan. 'Humour, it is a difficult concept.'

    And in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home: When the computer asks Spock: 'How do you feel?' Spock replies, ' I do not understand the question.'

    As someone with ASD, the concept of metaphor: Item X means ideas N, O, P, E is not a skill I possess. Item X is item X. The word encapsulated by its context and concise definition(s). It is the difference between cannot and will not.

    Take a look at what literal is, as established by is recognised definitions. Try writing a poem that is completely literal. I am guessing the majority of people will not be able to do something that seems like a really simple premise. Normal brains do not have the same neural pathways as those on the spectrum do. Literal is an easy concept because it makes sense, it is linear, geometric, an embodiment of fractal extrapolation. Metaphors, A does not equal B, but implies concept I, but is not support by context, it is in implied symbolism as determined by the reader's perceptions, not quantifiable data. Yet it is a naturally occurring trait in majority of the population. The need to draw a parallel no matter how obscure to find a deeper meaning to give one's self a feeling of greater understanding. Hence the establishment of fields from everything from philosophy and to dream interpretation.
    Last edited by Darkkin; July 9th, 2018 at 04:08 AM.


  5. #15
    Tim I agree with you that there is no such thing as literal communication and most of what you say above...that everything is connected in some way. However, I need you to explain this sentence to me, because I do not fully understand it.

    ‘You cannot say or write anything that does not represent more than what the initial intention is.’

    What if the initial intention changes while you are writing? Or even talking/thinking?
    There was never a great genius without a trace of madness. Attributed to Aristotle.

  6. #16
    Member Underd0g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    453
    An Objective Scene

    As the earth was suspended in such a position

    That the sun was half obscured by the horizon,

    The light traveled toward me in a wave form,

    My eye received the waves and translated them

    Into electrical impulses and transmitted them to my brain

    My mind interpreted it in the form of colors

    That produced endorphins that had the effect of pleasure,

    I know this because of past experiences
    If you look at my profile, say "Hi!" But not in a creepy way.

  7. #17
    So when a frustrated parent roars at their child, 'Go to bed!' What metaphors are contained within that statement? What deeper meaning is the parent, whose frustration with their child is clear, are contained within those three words. What else are they wanting their child to take away from the communication if it is not literal?

    Or a more practical application: I work at a bookstore a customer asks, 'Where is The President is Missing?'

    Where and what is the metaphor in that specific, real world example?

    A more fundamental question might be, if literal as a construct does not exist within the parameters of human understanding, why does the word, the concept itself even exist if it is an impossibility with no proveable function, if everything is entirely metaphorical? What makes a literal translation as unattainable as prefection?
    Last edited by Darkkin; July 9th, 2018 at 12:29 AM.


  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Underd0g View Post
    An Objective Scene

    As the earth was suspended in such a position

    That the sun was half obscured by the horizon,

    The light traveled toward me in a wave form,

    My eye received the waves and translated them

    Into electrical impulses and transmitted them to my brain

    My mind interpreted it in the form of colors

    That produced endorphins that had the effect of pleasure,

    I know this because of past experiences

    That is glaringly literal, comes up short on functional poetic elements, but definitely literal. Grounded in extrapolative logic.


  9. #19
    Member Underd0g's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    453
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkkin View Post
    So when a frustrated parent roars at their child, 'Go to bed!' What metaphors are contained within that statement? What deeper meaning is the parent, whose frustration with their child is clear, are contained within those three words. What else are they wanting their child to take away from the communication if it is not literal?

    Or a more practical application: I work at a bookstore a customer asks, 'Where is The President is Missing?'

    Where and what is the metaphor in that specific, real world example?

    A more fundamental question might be, if literal as a construct does not exist within the parameters of human understanding, why does the word, the concept itself even exist if it is an impossibility with no proveable function, if everything is entirely metaphorical? What makes a literal translation as unattainable as prefection?
    "Go to bed" as an exercise of reflection? To experience suffering? To sleep? You weren't clear.
    If you look at my profile, say "Hi!" But not in a creepy way.

  10. #20
    A comparision of two poems, both dealing with the woods. Look up George P. Morris's Woodman, Spare that Tree. An excellent example of a linear translation of a tree allegory. A direct connection of a tree and its history with the narrator's family. A literal embodiment of a family tree. And Robert Frost's Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening. A contemplative rubaiyat with no clear allegory or seemingly profound meaning, merely an enjoyable moment frozen in the verse of a winter evening.

    Tennyson's Sweet and Low, to the reader, comes across very much as a lullaby and a prayer. And death as a journey in Crossing the Bar, the departure from the mortal plane clear in the context of the lines. Pretty straight forward when placed alongside William Blake's The Human Abstract. Literal embodiment of abstract concepts.

    And poem that seems to embrace all things metaphor, because it makes no sense to me...Emily Dickinson's 'I dwell in Possibility'.

    By contrast one could ask what is the metaphor concealed in Silverstein's This Hat, The Invitation, and Dumb. A visceral embodiment of this whole discussion. Sign in Silverstein's Every Thing on It

    I'm sure more intuitive readers will find a wealth of greater meaning in these, but I found the dichotomy of the clever allegory and a moment of quiet contemplation interesting.
    Last edited by Darkkin; July 9th, 2018 at 01:48 AM.


Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
This website uses cookies
We use cookies to store session information to facilitate remembering your login information, to allow you to save website preferences, to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.