Thoughts on Male Vs. Female Fights - Page 6
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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Cook View Post
    This should not even be a question. Modern mediums and media have everyone really confused about reality so they could drive a wedge between genders. Just remember that political equality does not equal evolutionary equality. It's really high time for things like this to stop being a topic. You want to write about heroes and superpowers, then yes, you can do whatever you want. But if you want your story to be grounded in reality, then there is no equality when men fight women. Period. It has been said for a very long time that poison is a woman's weapon, for good reason.

    I worked in a county jail for 6 years.
    Among the staff were many female detentions officers.
    Among those female officers there were quite a few who had no trouble standing their ground in supermax or the psyche ward.
    Penny, Bodie, Sherri G...just a few of the women I've known who were tough enough to survive in a jail.
    If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.


    I'd never hesitate to answer a backup call with any of them.

  2. #52
    Member luckyscars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Rotten View Post
    I worked in a county jail for 6 years.
    Among the staff were many female detentions officers.
    Among those female officers there were quite a few who had no trouble standing their ground in supermax or the psyche ward.
    Penny, Bodie, Sherri G...just a few of the women I've known who were tough enough to survive in a jail.
    If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.


    I'd never hesitate to answer a backup call with any of them.
    You remember the names of women who were tough and apparently felt impressed by them. This suggests they were different to average women, otherwise why would that even be a point needing made?

    Look, this is a question of plausibility rather than equality, is it not? It's a biological fact that there are significant, proven physical differences between average women and average men. Why this is relevant to writing FICTION is anybody's guess...but if its worth discussing it's worth discussing honestly. Most domestic disputes involving one man and one women end with the woman coming off worse, and this is why we have things like a "Violence Against Women Act" not a "Violence Against Men Act" and why most women's shelters are populated by women fleeing violent men whereas most men's shelters are not. The AVERAGE man is stronger than the AVERAGE woman, is taller, has a larger heart for more stamina, possesses approximately 30% more upper body strength and is more aggressive. Equally the AVERAGE woman has a better immune system, lives longer and possesses better vision. Who is to say which gender is really stronger? In terms of what is needed for surviving is stamina and strength more important than resistance to disease?

    In the context of fiction all this means nothing because fiction is by definition not true. You can write anything. If you have a burning desire to write of a man beating the snot out of a woman that's your call, just bear in mind it might cause you problems if it comes across as being misogynistic, which it likely will unless you tread very carefully. You don't have to like it, but you cannot square an "I don't care what anyone thinks" attitude with a successful writing career because publishing is ultimately all about catering to readers' perceptions and taking into account the zeitgeist. The world of 2018 still maintains a fundamental difference between Average Joe hitting Average Jane and vice versa.

    This does not make it 'okay for a woman to hit a man' by the way. The point is that you have to be thoughtful in your choices. In an ideal world it's not actually acceptable for anybody to be hurting anybody without good reason, is it?
    "All good books have one thing in common - they are truer than if they had really happened."

    Ernest Hemingway



  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyscars View Post
    You remember the names of women who were tough and apparently felt impressed by them. This suggests they were different to average women, otherwise why would that even be a point needing made?

    Look, this is a question of plausibility rather than equality, is it not? It's a biological fact that there are significant, proven physical differences between average women and average men. Why this is relevant to writing FICTION is anybody's guess...but if its worth discussing it's worth discussing honestly. Most domestic disputes involving one man and one women end with the woman coming off worse, and this is why we have things like a "Violence Against Women Act" not a "Violence Against Men Act" and why most women's shelters are populated by women fleeing violent men whereas most men's shelters are not. The AVERAGE man is stronger than the AVERAGE woman, is taller, has a larger heart for more stamina, possesses approximately 30% more upper body strength and is more aggressive. Equally the AVERAGE woman has a better immune system, lives longer and possesses better vision. Who is to say which gender is really stronger? In terms of what is needed for surviving is stamina and strength more important than resistance to disease?

    In the context of fiction all this means nothing because fiction is by definition not true. You can write anything. If you have a burning desire to write of a man beating the snot out of a woman that's your call, just bear in mind it might cause you problems if it comes across as being misogynistic, which it likely will unless you tread very carefully. You don't have to like it, but you cannot square an "I don't care what anyone thinks" attitude with a successful writing career because publishing is ultimately all about catering to readers' perceptions and taking into account the zeitgeist. The world of 2018 still maintains a fundamental difference between Average Joe hitting Average Jane and vice versa.

    This does not make it 'okay for a woman to hit a man' by the way. The point is that you have to be thoughtful in your choices. In an ideal world it's not actually acceptable for anybody to be hurting anybody without good reason, is it?
    I'm glad you pointed out the "writing fiction" part of your post, because... we're writing fiction. We're not writing "average" characters, not writing amalgams of all humans of a specific class. We're writing individuals.

    So averages don't matter in fiction, except insofar as they give us a baseline for our characters to depart from.

    If someone wants to say that the average woman is physically weaker than the average man, I won't argue with them. But if they say it in a writers' forum, I'll ask them why they think it matters.

  4. #54
    My martial arts teacher said he knows a woman who is a student from his former class, and she could overpower any man she fought, and was able to reach a black belt champion. So it is possible to have a woman that is a big threat I think in that sense.

  5. #55
    Size and strength and great factors when you are fighting ordinary schmoes.
    But size & strength are diminished when fighting trained or experienced attackers.
    People who use force regularly (like jailors or cops) tend to have a distinct advantage over the rest of the world because they are used to doing it.
    Fighting is like writing or flying or anything else: those who practice will have greater skills, and those that have not get their asses kicked.

    Some of the toughest people I ever knew, in the military, or a jail, were not particularly big guys.
    Size does not make you tough. The biggest whiners on earth are the humps in Supermax.

  6. #56
    Member luckyscars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Rotten View Post
    Size and strength and great factors when you are fighting ordinary schmoes.
    But size & strength are diminished when fighting trained or experienced attackers.
    People who use force regularly (like jailors or cops) tend to have a distinct advantage over the rest of the world because they are used to doing it.
    Fighting is like writing or flying or anything else: those who practice will have greater skills, and those that have not get their asses kicked.

    Some of the toughest people I ever knew, in the military, or a jail, were not particularly big guys.
    Size does not make you tough. The biggest whiners on earth are the humps in Supermax.
    Agreed.

    How about this for a compromise, then: You can write about a physical altercation between a man and a woman if you feel the desperate need to...however if you are going to have it so that the woman beats up the man you ARE going to have to offer some explanation for this outcome, whether it be by giving her an advantage in her training or technique, her wits, her physique or by introducing some element of good fortune. You will need to address the audience's preconceived notions of female weakness in a thoughtful and coherent manner and not allow some hollow idea of settling a score to interfere with the credibility of your work.

    Equally if you are going to have it so that the man beats the snot out of a woman it must be consistent with his character also and you will need to work harder to justify it to your reader.
    "All good books have one thing in common - they are truer than if they had really happened."

    Ernest Hemingway



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