Don't Dish it Out, If You Can't Take It - Page 8

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Thread: Don't Dish it Out, If You Can't Take It

  1. #71
    I could not agree with you more, and I will do my very best to be part of the solution... not part of the problem.
    She lost herself in the trees,
    among the ever-changing leaves.
    She wept beneath the wild sky
    as stars told stories of ancient times.
    The flowers grew toward her light,
    the river called her name at night.
    She could not live an ordinary life,
    with the mysteries of the universe
    hidden in her eyes....
    Author: Christy Ann Martine

    Death leaves a heartache no one can heal,
    love leaves a memory no one can steal....
    Author unknown.

  2. #72
    Hi .... a few more thoughts ...

    • Many people here don't like my critiques. I'm not going to engage on this--merely state it as the truth it is.
    • These members tend to post in each others' threads about my critiques rather than the original work. This is always off-topic but when I was a mod, it was tough because there was a perception that the moderation was personal due to my involvement as a poster. Also there are never enough mods to go around. This meant that I often was the mod-on-duty.
    • When my life got busy enough I had to cut something, I chose to cut mod duties at WF becauseof the above. Heck, I even cut posting and critiquing. All moderators, like the rest of the staff here, are volunteers. That means they aren't paid for the grief they get.
    • The forum is what the membership chooses to make it. Why does the membership-at-large seem to think that only moderators can PM other members and ask them to display better manners? How loud does the neighbor's music have to be before you ask them to turn it down? Or do you always wait for your other neighbor to call the cops?
    Dream big, fight hard, live proud!

  3. #73
    I'd be happy to see the bar raised (again) in the Workshops; they were, and are, after all, meant to be for works intended for publication. That means works ready to face the scrutiny of potential editors and publishers.

    Understandably, more writers believe themselves ready than truly are, and they are the ones most offended when the peer review provides the necessary reality check.

    Policing this policy has proved problematic (apologies for the alliteration here) in the past. But if enough established members are solidly behind such a policy, we can make the Workshops a more valuable space for serious writers and reviewers.

    The other side of it is that the open creative boards do become the kiddies' pool; feedback lite.

    "I don't know ... I'm making it up as I go ..." - Dr I Jones

    Nature abhors perfection - cats abhor a vacuum!

    "Faith can move mountains - she's a big girl!" (unknown/graffiti)

    If I act like I own the place, it's because I did.

  4. #74
    Yes, I feel I was snagged in the spider web of open poetry group. Too many are confused about whether it is just a showcase for one's work or a true workshop. I was a confused one. And, new members coming in have no way of knowing workshop comments should be "lite". Nor exactly what "lite" would entail for each poet, especially newcomers. The "idea" of "lite" will not work. It is a hidden, "in-group, secret". A workshop is a workshop. I have solved this personal angst created by no longer making workshop comments there. I do read each poem, and indicate through "like" or "thanks" that I've done so, in acknowledgement of the poet's efforts. Even in closed workshop, I now find myself needing to be selective about just whose poem I can make comments on, even my "like" to another's comment, on their poem, generates a nasty private message. Damn pity, too. I used to feel at home here.


  5. #75
    I post to the open boards for traffic reasons. Members in the workshop know my style, it isn't worth the bother, and my threads are (mercifully) buried within a couple of days. Generally enough time to get an idea of any major structural issues that need attention. The linear construct of the forum matrix allows for fresh perspective and that helps almost as much as an impartial pair of eyes. And as there is a fair bit of crossover between the boards, I don't pull up short on critique for entries on either board...I learn from the critiquing process and that is a tool I'm not going to discard to pander or coddle.

    It is a tool, respected and earned. One I have the privilege of having wielded...The practice of the preaching. It is a practice that makes one persona non grata to be an honest voice, but critique is impartial, inherently honest. Rarely what people want or expect to hear.

    - D.
    Last edited by Darkkin; October 6th, 2017 at 01:28 PM.

  6. #76
    Walking away truly does become the only viable option when one's time is limited. Torn between moderation duties, personal life, and eventually feeling as though nothing one says is heard makes it the easiest and most rewarding option. I can't make other people hear me while doing everything I'm supposed to do? I think we all know how that ends.

  7. #77
    I don't know what people expect. Same as the poster of a piece you get what you get. If you're lucky enough to glean something, great, but I, personally, 'expect' nothing. It is what it is and it can be no reply, no one 'gets' it , someone teaches you something, or ...? I see no reason to take offense. Those are the possible replies, so those should be expected. For me, it's usually no reply. So what? No one is getting paid so no one has to do a thing for me. I don't expect any thank you's or anything. People are busy, or, not inspired , or... whatever. I'm that way, too. Again, so what?
    Last edited by Kevin; October 6th, 2017 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by sas View Post
    Even in closed workshop, I now find myself needing to be selective about just whose poem I can make comments on, even my "like" to another's comment, on their poem, generates a nasty private message.
    I find this highly disturbing. If anyone receives a nasty PM regarding critique, please inform me immediately.

    I'm going to take a final stab at this. Look at the size of this thread. Now imagine how much beneficial knowledge could have been exchanged on the boards if the effort spent here was instead dispersed there. I don't believe it necessary for me to pursue this particular point any further.

    For the sake of everyone's well being, please allow me to make a few further points. If you have a personality clash with another member which cannot be resolved, please put that member on ignore. What you don't see won't incite further unrest. It is a fact of life that certain personalities cannot mix. There has been a great deal of simmering beneath the surface due to personality clashes which ultimately began to rear its ugly head within threads in the recent past. For the most part, it has ceased. Let's keep it that way.

    We rely on the fine folks here to do the right thing regarding reciprocity, therefore, we do not enforce obligatory critique. That means no one here is ever pressured to critique a thread. Your time is very valuable, and should not be wasted. That said, if any of the following apply, please just pass over the thread:

    If you feel the OP has been previously hostile because you were honest and it's more than likely they will continue to be so.
    If you feel the OP plops stuff down everywhere yet never bothers to crit anyone else, or fails to acknowledge your critique with at least a thank you.
    If you feel the OP has absolutely no desire to learn and is here only to showcase.
    If the OP is a novice, and you find it intolerable to refrain from using advanced terminology which that novice cannot understand. Confusion will always inspire defensiveness and possibly undue hostility.

    If you post a thread and receive critique, please treat it with the respect it deserves and consider the following:

    Critique is never personal, it is directed at the work, not your ego. If anything does veer into the personal, report it and we'll handle it.
    Accepting critique is not mandatory, just because you receive it, you do not have to apply it. Be selective and don't lose sight of your original vision.
    If you choose to refute any point made within a critique, do so respectfully and never allow your comments to veer into the personal.
    Never mistake honesty for mean spiritedness. Some of us are more blunt than others.
    If any portion of a critique confounds you, ask questions, they will be answered.
    And finally, always acknowledge the effort others have made with at least a thank you even if you did not warm to what has been said.

    Please understand that we are not asking anyone to change their methods of critiquing. Proceed with what you are comfortable with, but please keep the points I've made in mind. We have to collectively find some middle ground so that this critique debate will come to an end. The atmosphere here is much less conducive to learning than it's been in the past. We need to remedy that. How I wish this thread would find its way to the graveyard already, lol. I think.

    Thank you for your attention as well as your anticipated consideration.
    Last edited by Chesters Daughter; October 6th, 2017 at 11:36 PM.

  9. #79
    Pete, I am not advocating false praise, but as you point out those who give a full on crit must think the writer worth it, so what harm in telling them what you see there that makes it worth it, and then how they could make that even better?
    A new story

    I finally got 'A Family Business' recorded and loaded, all 37 mins of it, much longer than any I have done before.
    Hidden Content

  10. #80
    What do I have to do to get these nasty PMs? Perhaps there's a line, and if you're insensitive enough people just assume there's no point trying to please you and are more able to dismiss you as an asshole? Could I have accidentally happened upon some stable point of peak dick along the consideration curve?
    You can never hate something so thoroughly as that which destroys what you love, and who is more guilty of this crime than the stranger who was once a lover?

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