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  1. #21
    Well I liked "begetter". Made one think, and not too hard, just enough.

  2. #22
    Global Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    So a fabulous example of precision.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverMoon View Post

    all you bonbon boys and gentle men Alliteration and rhyme are used wonderfully in this poem--powerful weapons--and here 'bonbon' stands out. Nice play too on gentle----men. Solid opening.
    Id wintered you then with my back, I've read this quite a bit and am still confused on 'wintered.' There are many connotations to it. Many sexual, many related to experience. I'm curious what your thoughts were with this choice.
    spine already traced by the finger of
    a brute, drawn down - I do think 'brute' is a strong descriptor here and it hides the emotional punch to be delivered in the final stanza. But a stronger word? I'm in a bit of a mystical mood, so the word 'titan' came to mind. Maybe too grand for this personal piece.
    soft

    then
    to
    the
    pinch Fabulous form meeting content with the enjambment.

    If not for this I would ax this line. Why tell when so much of the poem is tight and sacrifices proper tense and altering phrases?
    I might have known
    your gingerly words, 'gingerly' is unique
    your honest kisses

    Id been like the
    whispering, giggling girls like 'bonbon,' 'giggling' is crisp

    Id been like the
    touched, flushed women

    yet,
    tell me an I love you lie
    and Ill stay solid example of characterization and turning in a poem without any feeling of effort--very natural, starting with 'lie' on the previous line.

    give me a tricky kiss
    and Ill stay

    standing still
    standing it, still Beautiful comma


    never mind
    my eyes
    the colours of seasons
    ochre, green, brown, white around Crazy crit here, but I think the poem stronger without the next few couplets comparing to the seasons. Though confessional, the rest of the poem is imagism. I mean, there's a lot of simile structure, but it's straight image after image, no descriptors, creating feeling out of the visual example. I feel like the next section of the poem betrays that a bit, and 'the colours of seasons' is so great, it gets hidden by the patterned couplets. So I suggest either cutting them or reframing them similar to the first half of the poem.

    dry, I cannot cry,
    like summer


    lazy, I cannot grow,
    like spring

    pressed, I cannot fly,
    like fall

    white of eyes
    buried -
    like all the wintered boys coming back to 'wintered,' I see it as a comment on experience, but again I am still lost about it.

    brute, what have you done?
    when something like love comes,
    daughter goes
    numb then disappears I love this last stanza. The rhyming and alliteration is startling. Fantastic, friend.
    "I don't do anything with my life except romanticize and decay with indecision."

    "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing."

  3. #23
    WF Veteran SilverMoon's Avatar
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    Glass, my dear friend, of seven years. So, honored you took out time from what's left of your vacation before returning to collage as Professor of English Lit. Yes! To all who are reading, between being University and WF schooled my friend has reached his goal, with more to follow as a writer.

    I will say, if not for you and your brilliantly probing critiques I'd not have become a better writer than when we first met up here, we never being one of the "beige persons"....

    OK. This is how I'm going to format. Glass's original in Quote Box, here. Followed by my Quote Box addressing his questions. Then my re-write in new post.

    Originally Posted by SilverMoon with Squalid Glass Critique
    all you bonbon boys and gentle men Alliteration and rhyme are used wonderfully in this poem--powerful weapons--and here 'bonbon' stands out. Nice play too on gentle----men. Solid opening.
    I’d wintered you then with my back, I've read this quite a bit and am still confused on 'wintered.' There are many connotations to it. Many sexual, many related to experience. I'm curious what your thoughts were with this choice.
    spine already traced by the finger of
    a brute, drawn down - I do think 'brute' is a strong descriptor here and it hides the emotional punch to be delivered in the final stanza. But a stronger word? I'm in a bit of a mystical mood, so the word 'titan' came to mind. Maybe too grand for this personal piece.
    soft

    then
    to
    the
    pinch Fabulous form meeting content with the enjambment.

    If not for this I would ax this line. Why tell when so much of the poem is tight and sacrifices proper tense and altering phrases?
    I might have known
    your gingerly words, 'gingerly' is unique
    your honest kisses

    I’d been like the
    whispering, giggling girls like 'bonbon,' 'giggling' is crisp

    I’d been like the
    touched, flushed women

    yet,
    tell me an “I love you lie”
    and I’ll stay solid example of characterization and turning in a poem without any feeling of effort--very natural, starting with 'lie' on the previous line.

    give me a tricky kiss
    and I’ll stay

    standing still
    standing it, still Beautiful comma


    never mind
    my eyes
    the colours of seasons
    ochre, green, brown, white around Crazy crit here, but I think the poem stronger without the next few couplets comparing to the seasons. Though confessional, the rest of the poem is imagism. I mean, there's a lot of simile structure, but it's straight image after image, no descriptors, creating feeling out of the visual example. I feel like the next section of the poem betrays that a bit, and 'the colours of seasons' is so great, it gets hidden by the patterned couplets. So I suggest either cutting them or reframing them similar to the first half of the poem.

    dry, I cannot cry,
    like summer


    lazy, I cannot grow,
    like spring

    pressed, I cannot fly,
    like fall

    white of eyes
    buried -
    like all the wintered boys coming back to 'wintered,' I see it as a comment on experience, but again I am still lost about it.

    brute, what have you done?
    when something like love comes,
    daughter goes
    numb then disappears I love this last stanza. The rhyming and alliteration is startling. Fantastic, friend


    Originally Posted by SilverMoon in reply to Squalid Glass Critique
    all you bonbon boys and gentle men
    Alliteration and rhyme are used wonderfully in this poem--powerful weapons--and here 'bonbon' stands out. Nice play too on gentle----men. Solid opening.
    I’d wintered you then with my back, inspired by Mary Freeman's excerpt from her novel "The Shoulders of Atlas"
    "I've summered and wintered you, you've summered and wintered me"
    Just beautiful
    Mine - I've turned you cold like winter. I've wintered you. Perhaps I've even killed your spirit with my back turned to you - winter (snow represents death, the burial of ground) I never knew wintered had sexual connotation? Humm. I did a search and could find no reference.

    already traced by the finger of
    a brute, drawn down - I did think it too strong, thinking of my piece "Thank You to the Architect who Turned my Mind into Rooms"
    The poem utterly horrific without using a demonizing word to describe the father. Here, the content is much milder and therefore thought brute would be overpowering. Then who was the brute? Only known when I slipped in daughter in last stanza. We, here, have been hard at work re: this. I think your suggestion would work out after all. It was my thinking about the construction of my former poem which had much to do with my failing to find technical closure to this poem.

    then
    to
    the
    pinch Fabulous form meeting content with the enjambment.

    If not for this Yes. It deserves a big axe
    I might have known
    your gingerly words, 'gingerly' is unique
    your honest kisses

    I’d been like the
    whispering, giggling girls like 'bonbon,' 'giggling' is crisp

    I’d been like the
    touched, flushed women

    yet,
    tell me an “I love you lie”
    and I’ll stay solid example of characterization and turning in a poem without any feeling of effort--very natural, starting with 'lie' on the previous line.

    give me a tricky kiss
    and I’ll stay

    standing still
    standing it, still Beautiful comma


    never mind
    my eyes
    the colours of seasons
    ochre, green, brown, white around Yes. I agree. Colored terse effect is overpowered by the couplets below so they will be done with.

    dry, I cannot cry,
    like summer


    lazy, I cannot grow,
    like spring

    pressed, I cannot fly,
    like fall

    white of eyes
    buried -
    like all the wintered boys
    Given the former explanation, I do hope this becomes a bit clearer?

    brute, what have you done?
    when something like love comes,
    daughter goes
    numb then disappears I love this last stanza. The rhyming and alliteration is startling. Fantastic, friend
    And, thank you! For all that I greyed above that you did find fantastic. I have missed your reviews terribly but for now am sated.

    Yours, ever more than the beige persons.
    Last edited by SilverMoon; July 16th, 2017 at 03:05 AM.
    The man who cannot visualize a horse galloping on a tomato is an idiot.
    Andre Breton

  4. #24
    WF Veteran SilverMoon's Avatar
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    Second Re-write

    all you bonbon boys and gentle men
    I’d wintered you then with my back,
    spine already traced by the finger of
    a brute, drawn down -
    soft

    then
    to
    the
    pinch

    I might have known
    your gingerly words,
    your honest kisses

    I’d been like the
    whispering, giggling girls

    I’d been like the
    touched, flushed women

    yet,
    tell me an “I love you lie”
    and I’ll stay

    give me a tricky kiss
    and I’ll stay

    standing still
    standing it, still

    never mind
    my eyes
    the colours of seasons

    white of eyes
    buried -
    like all the wintered boys

    brute, what have you done?
    when something like love comes,
    daughter goes
    numb then disappears
    The man who cannot visualize a horse galloping on a tomato is an idiot.
    Andre Breton

  5. #25
    Global Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    I like the edit a lot. And yeah, my original thought on "wintered" was kind of bringing a sort of death. Destruction of innocence, Blakean imagery and all that. Very nice.
    "I don't do anything with my life except romanticize and decay with indecision."

    "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing."

  6. #26
    Member Rick Keeble's Avatar
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    I'm so glad I swung by again! This is a prime example what good critiquing (Glass and others) can result in. Personally, I kind of miss the seasonal stanzas, but then again, I always use more paint than the canvas can hold. It is poems like this that make the reader dream of writing themselves. Very well crafted.

  7. #27
    Welcome back, Glass. Hope you can stay. If you disappear, with your red pen, I might need to come find you. My son lives in The Springs. Love it there. Great critique!

    Silver, fabulous rewrite. Stunning. Just one thing: I'd think the quotation mark should be placed differently:

    tell me an "I love you" lie

    I do not believe lie should be within it.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverMoon View Post

    all you bonbon boys and gentle men
    Id wintered you then with my back,
    spine already traced by the finger of
    a brute, drawn down -
    soft

    then
    to
    the
    pinch

    If not for this
    I might have known
    your gingerly words,
    your honest kisses

    Id been like the
    whispering, giggling girls

    Id been like the
    touched, flushed women

    yet,
    tell me an I love you lie
    and Ill stay

    give me a tricky kiss
    and Ill stay

    standing still
    standing it, still


    never mind
    my eyes
    the colours of seasons
    ochre, green, brown, white around

    dry, I cannot cry,
    like summer


    lazy, I cannot grow,
    like spring

    pressed, I cannot fly,
    like fall

    white of eyes
    buried -
    like all the wintered boys

    brute, what have you done?
    when something like love comes,
    daughter goes
    numb then disappears
    Great lines. keep it Up

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sas View Post
    Welcome back, Glass. Hope you can stay. If you disappear, with your red pen, I might need to come find you. My son lives in The Springs. Love it there. Great critique!

    Silver, fabulous rewrite. Stunning. Just one thing: I'd think the quotation mark should be placed differently:

    tell me an "I love you" lie

    I do not believe lie should be within it.
    I'd wondered that, too.

    I think it's acceptable as it is, as the whole phrase has become a figure of speech?

  10. #30
    I can't get over this poem, Silver.

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