hello, all. a beginning of a novel(le) of mine - Page 2

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Thread: hello, all. a beginning of a novel(le) of mine

  1. #11
    Exchanging kisses, here and there, Neil and Alice were making their way up the Big Mouth mountain. Nothing could stop them.
    You can't talk to the reader as if you're with them. Why? Because they can neither hear nor see you, so the words are heard in a monotone, modified only by the emotion inherent to the wording, and the punctuation. Remember, the reader doesn't know what a line will say until after they've read it. So how can they even guess at how you want it read? Yes, when you read, you hear the result of your performance, but the reader has only what the words suggest to them. And given that they don't yet know who they are, where they are, and what's going on, look at the first two lines from the reader's viewpoint:

    • Exchanging kisses? What in the hell does that mean? Is that like "kissing?" Perhaps like "lost in each other?" Given that you actually exchange nothing but bacteria and spit when kissing, this doesn't really fit. And given that at this point you've placed effect, the kisses, before cause: the people and why they would want to be doing that, as it's read this is literally meaningless to any given reader—at-this-point. And since you can't give that meaning retroactively, it helps not at all if you clarify, later.

    • "Here and there," Ahh, they they kissed in other spots than lips? Or...they moved around the room, the sofa, the bed, the country? Or... You cannot, cannnot cannot say, "You know what I mean," because the reader doesn't.

    • Neil and Alice? Two teenagers? A married couple? Sister and brother? You know. Neil and Alice know. But because you've given the reader no trace of context, they don't. And given that the reader is the one you wrote this for,...

    • "The" Big Mouth Mountain, as against Big Mouth Mountain? This matters, because in one case it's a title/name, and in another, it's a mountain that's a blabbermouth. And given that a mountain is not a hill, and is at least 1000 feet tall (in the U.S. In England it's 2000 feet tall), they seem to be having a remarkably easy time of it. They're not walking, remember, you say they're climbing.

    "Nothing could stop them?" So this is a superhero story? Rain, fire, a crashing asteroid, it's all the same to them? Seriously?

    Is any of that what you intended a reader to get? No. But your intent for what a reader gets becomes irrelevant when you release your words. It's what those words suggest to that reader, based on their background. And since you can't know that, doesn't it make sense to have a feel for what matters to the reader, and why? Given that colleges offer degree programs in writing fiction, doesn't it make sense to learn at least a little bit about that subject?

    I say that because nothing you learned about how to put together a report or essay in school is applicable to constructing fiction. Your schooldays writing is meant to inform. Fiction's goal is to entertain. Different objective = equals different tool-set required.

    It's not a matter of good or bad writing, it's that you're missing some important tools and the knowledge of how to use them. So putting some time aside to dig into the tricks of the trade, in your local library system's fiction writing section, would be time well spent.
    Last edited by Jay Greenstein; May 22nd, 2017 at 02:03 AM.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greenstein View Post
    You can't talk to the reader as if you're with them. Why? Because they can neither hear nor see you, so the words are heard in a monotone, modified only by the emotion inherent to the wording, and the punctuation. Remember, the reader doesn't know what a line will say until after they've read it. So how can they even guess at how you want it read? Yes, when you read, you hear the result of your performance, but the reader has only what the words suggest to them. And given that they don't yet know who they are, where they are, and what's going on, look at the first two lines from the reader's viewpoint:

    • Exchanging kisses? What in the hell does that mean? Is that like "kissing?" Perhaps like "lost in each other?" Given that you actually exchange nothing but bacteria and spit when kissing, this doesn't really fit. And given that at this point you've placed effect, the kisses, before cause: the people and why they would want to be doing that, as it's read this is literally meaningless to any given reader—at-this-point. And since you can't give that meaning retroactively, it helps not at all if you clarify, later.

    • "Here and there," Ahh, they they kissed in other spots than lips? Or...they moved around the room, the sofa, the bed, the country? Or... You cannot, cannnot cannot say, "You know what I mean," because the reader doesn't.

    • Neil and Alice? Two teenagers? A married couple? Sister and brother? You know. Neil and Alice know. But because you've given the reader no trace of context, they don't. And given that the reader is the one you wrote this for,...

    • "The" Big Mouth Mountain, as against Big Mouth Mountain? This matters, because in one case it's a title/name, and in another, it's a mountain that's a blabbermouth. And given that a mountain is not a hill, and is at least 1000 feet tall (in the U.S. In England it's 2000 feet tall), they seem to be having a remarkably easy time of it. They're not walking, remember, you say they're climbing.

    "Nothing could stop them?" So this is a superhero story? Rain, fire, a crashing asteroid, it's all the same to them? Seriously?

    Is any of that what you intended a reader to get? No. But your intent for what a reader gets becomes irrelevant when you release your words. It's what those words suggest to that reader, based on their background. And since you can't know that, doesn't it make sense to have a feel for what matters to the reader, and why? Given that colleges offer degree programs in writing fiction, doesn't it make sense to learn at least a little bit about that subject?

    I say that because nothing you learned about how to put together a report or essay in school is applicable to constructing fiction. Your schooldays writing is meant to inform. Fiction's goal is to entertain. Different objective = equals different tool-set required.

    It's not a matter of good or bad writing, it's that you're missing some important tools and the knowledge of how to use them. So putting some time aside to dig into the tricks of the trade, in your local library system's fiction writing section, would be time well spent.
    Hello Jay,

    nice to hear an honest critique. Yet, I might not agree with you on some of the points you've made. I'll try to convey my meaning.

    Here and there is left to a reader's immagination, it migth be places of the body, and it might be the country they are roaming.

    It's clear that the protagonists are a couple in love...
    they are moving fast because they spotted a pond in which they would wish to refresh thenselves....and Neil knew about that spot from before.

    Lost in each other would be much better choice for exchanging kisses, I adree.

    And thank you once again for the advices

  3. #13
    Here and there is left to a reader's immagination,
    In that case, below, is the ultimate storyDid you like it? I left everything to the reader's imagination. Though I admit it's not mine, I copied it from the lady who wrote it.
    You engage the reader's imagination. You take them on an adventure. You make them feel it as if they're living the scene in real-time. You present a self-guiding trail through wonder. You do-not expect them to write the story for you.
    It's clear that the protagonists are a couple in love...
    Only to you, who know the place, the time, and the characters. that opening paragraph could be almost anyone. And later, we don't know how old they are. We don't know the smallest thing about them and their background/personality/needs/etc.
    they are moving fast because they spotted a pond in which they would wish to refresh thenselves....and Neil knew about that spot from before.
    Sure, you know that. So do the people involved. But the reader can't read your mind. Given that the story is written for the ones reading, wouldn't it be nice to let them in on the secret, before they need to know it?

    When you read the piece every line points to images, knowledge, ideas, and intent all stored in your mind. So when you read it works. But for the reader, who has only what the words suggest to them, based on their background, every line points to images, knowledge, ideas, and intent all stored in your mind. And since you're not there to help...

    Every field has its own body of specialized knowledge that must be mastered by those hoping to practice in that field. Ours is no different. In fact, it's such a difficult field that the rejection rate in the publisher's office is 99.9%

    The good news, though, is that fully 97% of them are rejected because the writing is viewed as amateur (their term). So if you do take the time to learn the tricks of the trade you have an advantage er ever take the time to claim. Training your talent is no guarantee that you'll be successful, but not taking the time to do itt is pretty much a guarantee that you won't.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greenstein View Post
    In that case, below, is the ultimate storyDid you like it? I left everything to the reader's imagination. Though I admit it's not mine, I copied it from the lady who wrote it.

    You engage the reader's imagination. You take them on an adventure. You make them feel it as if they're living the scene in real-time. You present a self-guiding trail through wonder. You do-not expect them to write the story for you. Only to you, who know the place, the time, and the characters. that opening paragraph could be almost anyone. And later, we don't know how old they are. We don't know the smallest thing about them and their background/personality/needs/etc. Sure, you know that. So do the people involved. But the reader can't read your mind. Given that the story is written for the ones reading, wouldn't it be nice to let them in on the secret, before they need to know it?

    When you read the piece every line points to images, knowledge, ideas, and intent all stored in your mind. So when you read it works. But for the reader, who has only what the words suggest to them, based on their background, every line points to images, knowledge, ideas, and intent all stored in your mind. And since you're not there to help...

    Every field has its own body of specialized knowledge that must be mastered by those hoping to practice in that field. Ours is no different. In fact, it's such a difficult field that the rejection rate in the publisher's office is 99.9%

    The good news, though, is that fully 97% of them are rejected because the writing is viewed as amateur (their term). So if you do take the time to learn the tricks of the trade you have an advantage er ever take the time to claim. Training your talent is no guarantee that you'll be successful, but not taking the time to do itt is pretty much a guarantee that you won't.
    Why, thanks Jay, for your thorough insight and suggestions, I believe I know where you're comming from.

    I guess that -among other things- it's all in the details, i.e. adjectives

    Maybe I ought to engage myself in writing a script, who knows,

    Thanks again,

    W.
    Last edited by w.riter; May 25th, 2017 at 04:44 AM.

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