Encouragement vs Honesty - Page 3


Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 123456789101113 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 176

Thread: Encouragement vs Honesty

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Bowman View Post
    Wow. This is interesting.

    I take it you have been in the position I referred to?

    You are correct, of course, in pointing out that the readers don't care. So, of course, that automatically means that we shouldn't either, right?
    My experiences in life are irrelevant to anyone reading my stories, and honestly I want to keep it that way. I want an honest critique and can separate my work from my personal feelings, therefore I send my work to people who's opinion I trust and respect. But that is my responsibility, not the person doing the critique. And by "we" whom are you referring? People critiquing on a web forum? Sure, I agree with you, but a web forum is a fairly controlled environment, yet conversely, is rather public wouldn't you say? No two amateur critiquers will look at a work the same way, and even further, no two people have the same skill at providing a critique. People who make personal attacks get banned. Problem solved. But is it? Not really, because people can take offense at nearly anything and others can have good intentions but end of offending the sensibilities of an overly sensitive writer.

    In essence, what I'm suggesting is that writers who can be crushed into non-writers because of a critique may not meant to be writers. The Lovecrafts, Hemmingways and Vonneguts of the world became so by having an intrinsic need to write which nothing would prevent them from doing. My take is; don't sweat what others think. Take the good and chuck the rest. And yes, I do believe people who take the time to offer critique should do so in an honest, respectful, encouraging manner. Unfortunately, that takes some skill and can be hard to find. So when you build that relationship great! And the caveat is this; beyond the world of forums and friends critiquing is a world where people are very willing to tell me my writing stinks. And I'm OK with that because I decided recently the reason I write is simply because I want to.
    Anything that doesn't take years off your life and drives you to suicide hardly seems worth doing.
    - Cormac Mccarthy

  2. #22
    I always try to be nice. But I never give out false compliments. Granted I may compliment something that someone comes behind me and says is technically unsound and I just don't know it. But what I feel is what I feel. And your ditherings to me are so quiet and genuine and soft and comfortable to me. So when I see your posts, they all have a certain 'dithering' quality that just feels good no matter what the topic -- be it happy, sad, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dither View Post
    TK,
    i thank you.

    I wasn't angling for compliments, yes really, and because you volunteered that comment, i'll trust that you're not just "being nice".
    Please don't be offended by my reaction, such is my view of myself.

  3. #23
    For a typical critique around here, i don't experience much tension between being honest and being encouraging. Both can be done at once most of the time.

    I also am with TKent about the greatness of dither's posts (and I also always strive to be nice while refusing to hand out false compliments). There's a certain combination of poetry and near performance art to them. I know that it is silly to call the written word performance art, but the way you comment throughout a discussion, dither, it has a level of artistic performance sometimes. I know that you will say that is not intended, and maybe you just have that knack and we all have to just envy you, but it is still brilliant. Is dither's work too dour and pessimistic to sell to a mass audience? Probably (see, honesty!). Is dither's work brilliant? Most definitely (honesty + encouragement, I hope!).
    Last edited by InstituteMan; October 2nd, 2014 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Typing is hard
    Wisdom is seldom boisterous.

    -- a guy I know --

    If you're into hillbilly themed pornography (and, really, who ISN'T these days?), check out Hidden Content and Hidden Content . There's no pornography, but everything IS written by a hillbilly.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by InstituteMan View Post
    For a typical critique around here, i don't experience much tension between being honest and being encouraging. Both can be done at once most of the time.

    I also am with TKent about the greatness of dither's posts (and I also always strive to be nice while refusing to hand out false compliments). There's a certain combination of poetry and near performance art to them. I know that it is silly to call the written word performance art, but the way you comment throughout a discussion, dither, it has a level of artistic performance sometimes. I know that you will say that is intended, and maybe you just have that knack and we all have to just envy you, but it is still brilliant. Is dither's work too dour and pessimistic to sell to a mass audience? Probably (see, honesty!). Is dither's work brilliant? Most definitely (honesty + encouragement, I hope!).

    I've been telling dither that for as long as I've been here and he still doesn't believe me.
    Hidden Content

    Hey, check out Gertie's blog on her favorite top twenty-five albums between 1955-2017 Hidden Content


    And if you're into music, check out the brand new Hidden Content Hidden Content

  5. #25
    I apologise for slightly diverting this thread.

    Someone who sets themselves apart from the couch-potato culture and sits down to write, or sing, dance, sculpt, paint, or one of many other creative pursuits is worthy of my respect. If that person then joins a forum, this one in my case, and wishes to develop their skills and hang out with other like minded, even driven people is going to get an honest and encouraging crit. Maybe their work is not to my taste, that is no reason to behave in a hostile manner. Maybe their SPaG is not up to the job, mine sure the hell isn't, that is a minor concern, is their work interesting?

    Everyone gets better with practice, so the first effort is pants, the next will have improvements, the next will be interesting and so on.

    I am glad TS resumed writing, overcoming a knock-back and asserting his own choice. Don't let the illegitimate offspring of female canines grind you down.

    Write on!

  6. #26
    It's times like these that you have to tell them it how you would honestly would like to be told. You can be honest without being discouraging.
    There is no burden we are given that is beyond our bearing.

  7. #27
    Very well said!
    Since I have been here I have come to appreciate your patience and wisdom when offering advice not just to me but to the other writers here. It shows a certain level of "Gravitas" that can only be earned

    Quote Originally Posted by InstituteMan View Post
    When I do a critique, I don't worry much about honesty vs encouragement, because first and foremost I want to HELP. I want to help the writer improve that piece in particular and their skills overall. That requires a different approach at different times.

    I don't always get it right, mind you, but I try to meet the writer where they are. Most people are going to need to hear positives to take the constructive criticisms, and fortunately most people with the gumption to ask for a critique or to post on here are good enough to give me something positive to say.

    Another part of meeting writers where they are is giving a manageable amount of feedback. A piece with a clever idea but poor stricture and terrible grammar needs the structure fixed before the grammar. Harping on the grammar in that case gets in the way of improving the structure, so I usually wouldn't worry about it too much in a crit. I don't see much need in harping on things that aren't the pressing problem, especially for new writers.

    Finally, I try really hard to be honest about what is my subjective reaction to a piece so that the writer knows to take my thoughts with a grain of salt. An incomplete sentence is an incomplete sentence, but an allusion that rings false for me might work for someone else.

    Hopefully that approach has made my critiques helpful. I hope that I have also been both honest and encouraging, but I would take helpful over either of those.
    God hates a coward Revelation 21:8

    “Good writin' ain't necessarily good readin'.”

    Hidden Content ,

    To encourage and facilitate "me"

  8. #28
    encouraging honesty is the best route. but do be honest. if i wrote something that was trash? and i have. i don't need someone telling me how
    it might have potential when it doesn't. that would be wasting BOTH of our time.
    "Man, you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe.”

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by dale View Post
    encouraging honesty is the best route. but do be honest. if i wrote something that was trash? and i have. i don't need someone telling me how
    it might have potential when it doesn't. that would be wasting BOTH of our time.
    Agreed. But, even though the idea itself may have been crappy, were there good things in the writing itself?
    “Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were, but without it we go nowhere.” -Carl Sagan

    Real courage is found, not in the willingness to risk death, but in the willingness to stand, alone if necessary, against the ignorant and disapproving herd. --Jon Roland, 1976

    Have you checked out the Hidden Content

    Founder of the Pantsers United Group and member of the Fantasy Lords Group

    "Life is composed of lights and shadows, and we would be untruthful,
    insincere, and saccharine if we tried to pretend there were no shadows." - Walt Disney

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Bowman View Post
    Agreed. But, even though the idea itself may have been crappy, were there good things in the writing itself?
    Oh, I've seen writing with nothing much to redeem it other than the effort involved with writing it. Not on here, mind you.
    Wisdom is seldom boisterous.

    -- a guy I know --

    If you're into hillbilly themed pornography (and, really, who ISN'T these days?), check out Hidden Content and Hidden Content . There's no pornography, but everything IS written by a hillbilly.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
This website uses cookies
We use cookies to store session information to facilitate remembering your login information, to allow you to save website preferences, to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.