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Thread: What the reader expects

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by astroannie View Post
    Yes--whatever the expectation you set up -- to rhyme, to not-rhyme, to have a certain syllable count or whatever -- consistency makes it easier for you to convey your message.

    I like to try the Japanese-style forms and they do not rhyme. They are expected to not-rhyme so if I were to put a rhyme in, it would be the same kind of interrupted expectation that having one near-rhyme in an otherwise true-rhyme piece.

    So it's not rhyminess I'm supporting -- it's consistency.
    Great conversation going on here. I agree with you Annie. The human mind perceives a pattern, and in that perception comes expectation of the continuity of the pattern in the poem. A writer throwing in a pattern and then abandoning it is one of my biggest nits about reading poetry.

    Different strategies? Interesting. Tell me about these different strategies.
    If you're writing for yourself, or even to casually post here, you may or may not notice internal inconsistencies in your work. Indeed, you may not care. If you want to be published in the outside world, your piece had better be consistent so it is taken seriously by readers who know and care about such consistency.

    Didn't mean to step on the conversation. It addresses something important, and near-and-dear to my heart.

    Lorraine

  2. #12
    ~
    Last edited by WhitakerRStanton; April 10th, 2013 at 12:57 AM.

  3. #13
    I'll make one up.

    There's a monster in the bottle
    I become him every night
    I hate myself too much to fight
    There's a monster in the bottle
    Growing stronger with each swig
    I feel him tightening his grip.

    That is an inconsistency.
    Dream big, fight hard, live proud!

  4. #14
    Global Moderator Squalid Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astroannie View Post
    Depends on one's goals. What do you want to accomplish? If you want to make money writing poetry, then you should

    probably forget it. The profession is not exactly a money-making powerhouse.

    About your OP, I am more inclined to believe the art is first and foremost about the artist. While it is nice when others can relate to my poetry, and while I value other's opinions in order to improve, in the end my poetry is mine. Perhaps it is a Romantic mindset and a bit archaic, but if you're not writing for yourself then what's the point?
    "I don't do anything with my life except romanticize and decay with indecision."

    "America I've given you all and now I'm nothing."

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SqualidGlass View Post
    . Perhaps it is a Romantic mindset and a bit archaic, but if you're not writing for yourself then what's the point?


    Ignoring those writers who write for others like copywriters, I think first and foremost writers must write for themselves,

    Quote Originally Posted by astroannie View Post
    Ithink that our readers are what legitimizes us as poets and that we owe them alittle something. Again, it makes sense, if you set up an expectation, tofollow through on it.

    This is especially important in poetry that's intended to be heard, such asslam or lyrics. Your reader can't go back and reread the line to make sure theygot it--they are listening and if they get confused, might miss something inyour next line that you're trying to say.


    I think we all like, and to some extent need to have our work validated by others

    Two of the human needs are consistency and variety. Consistency makes us feel safe and comfortable. Variety gives us excitement. If a writer is not consistent enough in their work then the reader will not feel comfortable when reading it no matter how exciting the piece is. If the work is not stimulating then the reader will not continue no matter how comfortable the piece is.

    When I am reading otherís work on the site I am often jarred out of the piece by the unexpected or Ďjust plain wrongí in the work. If I am writing a critique I will continue because my purpose is to try to help the writer to tighten thework. There are some pieces that jar me so much that I give up.

    If I write the following for myself and I really like it.

    I wandered lonely as a cloud,
    Doh wah diddy diddy dum diddy do,
    There isnít anyother stair quite like it,
    Donít stand, donít stand, donít stand so close to me.

    With the first line I am setting up an expectation that the poem is going one way.
    With the second line I have disappointed the reader but maybe I am setting up a pattern. The third line is not in the style of the first or second and would have the reader wondering what is going on.

    Lines 1 and 2 are from other poems. Lines 3 and 4 are from songs. I might like this poem. I might be making an important point. But if I have jarred my reader out of the poem by not making it consistent enough, or in astroannieís words if I have setup an expectation and not followed through then I cannot expect people to be comfortable reading it and my point will not be made.

  6. #16
    rhyming my last two lines might look Seussian
    Oh to be such a distinctive writer that your name makes a word, Dickensian is the only other one I can think of instantly.
    then I cannot expect people to be comfortable reading it and my point will not be made.
    A point worth making is often uncomfortable, if the reader gives up as soon as something is outside their comfort zone they will not progress far.
    Visit my website to read and connect to my 'soundcloud', where you can listen to stories songs and more
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by astroannie View Post
    Depends on one's goals. What do you want to accomplish? If you want to make money writing poetry, then you should use different strategies than if you're scribbling away with no intention of sharing your work with anyone.

    One could make a strong case that posting work on the internet is an attempt to garner attention. In which case, what one posts will determine how one is perceived by the online community. If one didn't care what that opinion was, what would be the point of sharing work online?

    I actually agree with just about everyone. Writing means different things to different people and its a process. If a writer is writing for money, they most likely have to follow some serious, set guidelines and meet the needs of their boss(es). If a writer wants to be published, they have a much better chance with a polished piece following proper form. If a writer wants to write for fun or as a gateway to more serious writing, I don't think there is anything wrong with writing for the sake of writing. In that case, don't take yourself or your critics too seriously.

  8. #18
    WF Veteran Bloggsworth's Avatar
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    Orwellian, Shakespearean, Kafkaesque - You're not trying Olly!
    A man in possession of a wooden spoon must be in want of a pot to stir.

  9. #19
    You're not trying Olly!
    My missus says I am, very. Sorry about that. I spent most of yesterday in bed with a pain through one eye that went on to about 4am, not at my brightest.
    Visit my website to read and connect to my 'soundcloud', where you can listen to stories songs and more
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  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Olly Buckle View Post
    My missus says I am, very. Sorry about that. I spent most of yesterday in bed with a pain through one eye that went on to about 4am, not at my brightest.
    Not going to derail this, but quickly, hope you're doing better today.

    Lorraine

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