Grammar!

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Thread: Grammar!

  1. #1

    Grammar!

    Grammar!


    In the little while I have been knocking about writingforums.com, I have noticed one problem in particular. When a reader finds a flaw in in someone’s work, they usually don't have the time to explain the remedy in any great detail. So, I thought what was needed was a place where a little more help could be dispensed.


    Of course, if you want something doing, you have to do it yourself. So, despite the fact my written English can make grown Spag Nazis cry, here we are giving it a go.


    If anyone spots me making a mistake, please correct me. Any questions, or if my explanation is failing in clarity, let me know. I realise a lot of what we will deal with, will be already fully known, we will just have to grin and bear it. If you wish to punish yourself by really digging deep, try English Glossary of Grammar Terms - UsingEnglish.com


    If you have a sentence that someone has highlighted for your attention, and you would like a slightly deeper understanding of why, please post the sentence here and I will do my best to help.



    For my first foray into Grammar, I thought we could deal with Tenses.


    First of all I am going to tell you what you already know.


    Past …....She has spoken of the past.
    Present....She speaks of the past.
    Future.....She will speak of the past.


    Very rarely can you mix two or more in a story, however playing with tenses can be a useful tool in your special effects box.


    Tomorrow, she will be back where she started.


    If you have a tense related question, try me. With a bit of luck I will learn something my self.
    Last edited by bazz cargo; November 6th, 2011 at 10:32 PM.

  2. #2
    WF Veteran Bloggsworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazz cargo View Post
    Grammar!


    In the little while I have been knocking about writingforums.com, I have noticed one problem in particular. When a reader finds a flaw in in someone’s work, they usually don't have the time to explain the remedy in any great detail. So, I thought what was needed was a place where a little more help could be dispensed.


    Of course, if you want something doing, you have to do it yourself. So, despite the fact my written English can make grown Spag Nazis cry, here we are giving it a go.


    If anyone spots me making a mistake, please correct me. Any questions, or if my explanation is failing in clarity, let me know. I realise a lot of what we will deal with, will be already fully known, we will just have to grin and bear it. If you wish to punish yourself by really digging deep, try English Glossary of Grammar Terms - UsingEnglish.com


    If you have a sentence that someone has highlighted for your attention, and you would like a slightly deeper understanding of why, please post the sentence here and I will do my best to help.



    For my first foray into Grammar, I thought we could deal with Tenses.


    First of all I am going to tell you what you already know.


    Past …....She has spoken of the past.
    Present....She spoke of the past.
    Future.....She will speak of the past.


    Very rarely can you mix two or more in a story, however playing with tenses can be a useful tool in your special effects box.


    Tomorrow, she will be back where she started.


    If you have a tense related question, try me. With a bit of luck I will learn something my self.
    Kerboom!

    Present - She speaks of the past.
    A man in possession of a wooden spoon must be in want of a pot to stir.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    God bless you, bazz. May your quest be fruitful and rewarding.

    "Now let's all agree, never to be creative again."




  5. #5
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    dear Bazz thank you for thinking something great for us, I love threads like that.
    'getting to the heart of everything is a gift, getting to the heart a language is symphony' to me.
    THANK YOU!!

    PRESENT continous and the PRESENT futur?

    I am going to the shop before it closes

    OR

    I will go to the shop before it closes?



    which to use in a short story?

  6. #6
    WF Veteran Bloggsworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacian View Post
    dear Bazz thank you for thinking something great for us, I love threads like that.
    'getting to the heart of everything is a gift, getting to the heart a language is symphony' to me.
    THANK YOU!!

    PRESENT continous and the PRESENT futur?

    I am going to the shop before it closes

    OR

    I will go to the shop before it closes?



    which to use in a short story?
    As ever, it depends on context. The first means that you are in the process, the second means that you are not yet in the process. The second allows for several pages of whatever before the action of going to the shop, the first doesn't.
    A man in possession of a wooden spoon must be in want of a pot to stir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloggsworth View Post
    As ever, it depends on context. The first means that you are in the process, the second means that you are not yet in the process. The second allows for several pages of whatever before the action of going to the shop, the first doesn't.
    the PRESENT CONTINUOUS still does not make sense to me and this is the reason why:

    I am sleeping, although grammatically correct the concept does not exist.
    when you are asleep does not apply because you can't talk like that when asleep
    I am asleep.
    I am dreaming
    then you can't say
    I am going to dream ...because it is not something you predict.

    and then
    I am going to sleep.
    is the near futur, so not in the process cause you are still talking.
    as oppose,
    I will sleep, sometime.
    not sure when so the near future/unknown futur if you can say that??

    In other word the continous deos not apply to all the verbs
    the futur does .
    Last edited by Nacian; November 7th, 2011 at 06:39 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nacian View Post
    the PRESENT CONTINUOUS still does not make sense to me and this is the reason why:

    I am sleeping, although grammatically correct the concept does not exist.
    when you are asleep does not apply because you can't talk like that when asleep
    I am asleep.
    I am dreaming
    then you can't say
    I am going to dream ...because it is not something you predict.

    and then
    I am going to sleep.
    is the near futur, so not in the process cause you are still talking.
    as oppose,
    I will sleep, sometime.
    not sure when so the near future/unknown futur if you can say that??

    In other word the continous deos not apply to all the verbs
    the futur does .
    As a writer you should know that you don't always refer to the present time when using present tense. From a storytellers point of view it can be a powerful tool to bring the reader or listener back to the time where the action took place, or forward to the time when it will take place.

    "Imagine this scenario:

    I am laying in my bed, asleep. One of my feet is dangling off the edge of the bed, when a creepy-looking spider appears. It comes running across the floor, I'm still asleep, unaware of the imposing danger, when SUDDENLY..."

    You're referring to yourself in past tense, but bring the listener in as a bystander. Instead of just telling the story as something that has happened, you create the illusion for the listener that it's happening right there and then, a very poweful tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SixPence View Post
    As a writer you should know that you don't always refer to the present time when using present tense. From a storytellers point of view it can be a powerful tool to bring the reader or listener back to the time where the action took place, or forward to the time when it will take place.

    "Imagine this scenario:

    I am laying in my bed, asleep. One of my feet is dangling off the edge of the bed, when a creepy-looking spider appears. It comes running across the floor, I'm still asleep, unaware of the imposing danger, when SUDDENLY..."

    You're referring to yourself in past tense, but bring the listener in as a bystander. Instead of just telling the story as something that has happened, you create the illusion for the listener that it's happening right there and then, a very poweful tool.
    I can definetely see what you mean.
    but wouldn't it more powerful if it read
    he is laying in his bed, asleep.One of his feet is dangling off the edge of the bed, when a creepy-looking spider appears. It comes running across the floor, he is still asleep, unaware of the imposing danger, when SUDDENLY..."

    then the listener is also the viewer because he reads/listens and sees.
    that's THREE in one go.

  10. #10
    Not if you're telling a story about yourself.

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