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  1. Asmoab's Avatar
    This has been an interesting thread to read. It seems you all have some history. It's slightly easier to approach an established crowd on the internet, than in the playground, but not much. Here goes anyway.

    I don't buy the world's going to shit view. Find a paper, or pamphlet, from any period in the last 300 years. The narrative is common - the youth of today are deteriorating, somebody will be promoting a credible end of the world scenario, there are innumerable examples of man's inhumanity to man.

    It's the human condition, it has black and white and everything in between in any population or any one brain. You've got to live it, so why not enjoy it. If rose tinted specs make the world look brighter than wearing sunglasses, choose the rose stinted ones. The view they give is no more or less accurate than the sunglasses, but the world looks better.

    I'm a newbie. I'd wondered if Winston's post was so over the top it was a writing exercise.
  2. dither's Avatar
    BFB,

    I've got that T-Shirt and there's no way back.
  3. BornForBurning's Avatar
    Winston I get your feelings, because I have felt them. Very strongly. But I disagree. Here's one 'cold' truth, cold like steel: the more you cut yourself off from others, the more you cut yourself. One more person you don't give a damn about is one more open wound. It's like lopping off a limb each time one gets bruised. In the end, you end up powerless and isolated. There's only one self-made uberman, and that's God. You can't run forever.

    A warning: speaking from personal experience, to be alone, truly alone, and at the mercy of the things that lurk in the dark is a fate worse than death.

    Happy New Year, and I hope things go well for you. Good luck with weird family btw; I've got those people too
  4. dither's Avatar
    Good post Glasshouse, there is much truth, unfortunately, in what you say.
  5. Theglasshouse's Avatar
    People experience real life consequences of how others treat them such as myself. I had depression since high school and maybe earlier. All because if you don't respect people other things could happen very likely in the mental areas off life such as depression. In high school before entering in as sophomore I was innocent on how people behaved. I developed anxiety and would cover my face because people behaving badly in class.

    We are innocent to many people we have no idea how they can harm us even as adults. If you will childhood is a mirror to adulthood. To me adulthood never ends. We are influenced by many things that happen when children. It is these sorts of people that when they aren't corrected could harm someone without knowing it.

    I grew up. I doubt I will be easily influenced by people who claim they are kind towards other people.

    But in practice these very people want to get away with their behavior even when unethical because they got away with abuse.

    This is my personal anecdote from mental disease, and it has nothing to do with the opening post. I wish I could share an experience and not quote a post instead. Since I will probably sound ignorant. I am not sure what the post in the blog was about. I posted it because it's better to inductively understand points from another person's lifetime experiences.
  6. TL Murphy's Avatar
  7. Winston's Avatar
  8. -xXx-'s Avatar
    <snip>The circle of people that I trust and care for has shrank to a tiny circumference. It mainly contains my immediate family. And that's only because they've EARNED my trust. I don't know if I've ever suffered from the insanity of "unconditional love". There was a time long ago, I would have jumped on a grenade to save my platoon mates. But that ship has sailed. Now, I look around to see all these virtue-signaling, preening self-righteous do-gooders. And I can't decide how many are deluded idiots that think any of what the do matters, and how many are just attention-seeking hypocrites that should know better. <snip>

    I'm sure you think you care. Your emotional response to the horrific stories and images only validates your self-delusion. You probably even "do-something", like text #savekittens to 1234. I'm not going to play the holier-than-thou game. I'm not worried about losing that game. Re-read the first three words of the post title. I'm not here to validate your self-worth. That's you job.<snip>
    you rang?

    *puts on soup*
    *makes sammiches*
  9. midnightpoet's Avatar
    The internet does often show us the downside of humanity, and some of it is very disturbing; however, if we let ourselves be ruled by paranoia a lot worse things can happen. "We shall overcome someday," sings an old spiritual. We could do worse.
  10. escorial's Avatar
    taker us for a drink first...jeez
  11. Kevin's Avatar
    Oh e-man... Can we get married? Lol
    is the world getting worse? Mmm. I don't know. I think nature has gotten worse, like we're using it up, but people on the other hand, are just the same. There's always been people just like there are now- selfish manipulators, and mob mentality killers for a cause. And there's always been a few that said how about we don't eat this one? Because, just because.
  12. escorial's Avatar
    This is turning into a luv in....
  13. clark's Avatar
    I agree with Smith. For that matter, I agree with the passion and commitment of Winston’s original—Keats said in his Letters that he abhored the results of two men fighting, but he loved the dedication and fire that fueled it to begiin
  14. Smith's Avatar
    The above is a lengthier way of saying "psychological projection".

    And I don't disagree with that assessment.

    But to be honest, I'm not all that worried. Everybody needs a good rant every once in a while. It spawns from a certain grain of truth. Give it a good night's sleep, a nice shower, a couple days; Winston is smart enough to dial it back and figure out where he may have been letting his frustration go too far.

    Sometimes it's good to clear the mind and take a step away from all this stupid bullshit they force-feed us 24/7 on the television and internet.
    Updated January 6th, 2020 at 08:48 AM by Smith
  15. clark's Avatar
    In the 1960s, when I was a boy chronologically and intellectually/creatively, I read Colin Wilson's THE OUTSIDER. Amazing book . . .well, it was amazing to the young me. One line from the book has stuck to my memory like shit to a blanket: "The Outsider sees too deeply and too much, and what he sees is essentially chaos." Resolving our need to be unique and our need to be contributing members of the Tribe, is the greatest tension most people will ever face. Most do not even know they're facing it. Or if they do, their single response is to strengthen the walls, dig the moat deeper, and stock the ramparts with extra tubs of boiling oil. Protect what you (think) you have, for that acquisitive muthahfucker next door wants it all and is just biding his time . . . .

    Good writers get free of this insoluble dilemma, however briefly, through the act of writing. A poet or fiction writer must embrace an impossible transmogrification--they must create, enter into, and BECOME the world they create and the people they put in it. No one understands how that process works. It doesn't matter. What matters is that the writer is prepared to abandon self, to expose their vulnerability and in do doing, try to penetrate the ooze of superficial shit that coats "the essence" of every separate experience. Writers try to get a glimpse of that 'essence'. . .and pass it on to their readers. William Blake said it was "to see the world in a grain of sand."

    Winston's post struck me as a statement of defeat. And of judgment. It accepts the chaos Colin Wilson speaks of, rather than rejecting and combatting it. It evaluates what it declares to be whiney, self-serving, "self-righteous do-gooders" that (apparently) comprise 99% of WF members, then professes the indifference mirrored in the blog title, I DON'T CARE. Sorry Winston, "methinks thou doth protest too much": setting up the blog itself, and with such passion, indicates that you care a great deal.

    WF comprises a gaggle of writers. Some are annoying, abrasive, egocentric, others are na´ve, gullible, gushy, still others are brilliant, gifted, wise. A slice of The Global Tribe, eh? You're a member, Winston, and you do yourself and your ability a disservice, and deny the whole forum the benefit of your contributions, by opting out of the quest for the Essence and cynically declaring that the Chaos is too much for you.

    How about focusing on EMPATHY for those writers who, in your opinion, do not understand any of this, do not understand that they're fumbling around, tripping over their own egos and going nowhere? You say "
    I Do Good because it is logical. There is no "love" left in my heart. "
    You're so full of shit your eyes are brown. You care a great deal. Your post extends a lot of empathy towards yourself and your POV. You say "I do Good because it is logical." DO-ing anything is an extension beyond Self towards a set of circumstances, towards another human being, towards a set of ideals. You can't just throw The Good into the equation and expect it to dangle there on its own. The Good without Love (which you reject) is illogical

    As is your post.
  16. Smith's Avatar
    ^Maybe it's a lack of my own understanding, but the way the new-agey "lose the ego" stuff comes across to me is a cowardly way to escape negative feelings by foregoing any effort of striving for ideals. I've found it to be a pretty cynical and meaningless outlook on life if you take it to its full conclusion.

    There is a beauty in the bittersweet duality of life. If you dare to desire the highs of life, necessarily you must accept that it will come with its lows. Opting out of that is kind of lame. Studying both stoicism *and* hedonism has been of great benefit to me.

    In itself, this new-agey stuff conceptualizes the ego as being an exception to the paradoxical nature of existence. Everything else is this nihilistic shade of grey, oh! Except the ego! That's just completely bad! I found Alan Watts to be the most honest man about it.

    I mean yeah, you're right, you ought to check your ego from time to time. Tempering the ego seems to avoid self-righteousness. You tend to see the world in less of a black and white way. Getting the ego under control seems to lead to being less selfish, and more forgiving and more understanding.

    But personally, I don't really want to escape the ego. Just don't take it so damn seriously. And no amount of "your ego is saying 'I don't really want to escape the ego'" gaslighting is going to change that.

    Otherwise one might as well be saying "I don't like losing, so I'm not going to play", conveniently forgetting that you have to play if you want to win. And that's antithetical to the belief that it's better to try and fail, than to never try at all.
    Updated January 6th, 2020 at 01:34 AM by Smith
  17. TL Murphy's Avatar
    Winston’s post is the kind of sentiment that I would usually avoid responding to or engaging in any way. Much like responding to a child having a temper tantrum where negative attention is presumed by the child to be better than no attention. But this post is so full of pain, it’s like a cry for help. What really struck me was that at the end of the post Winston says he doesn’t do hope and on the very next line he says he hopes he hasn’t offended anyone. I don’t know if he’s trying to be ironic. If so, it’s pathetic irony. The paradox is so poignant. It drips with self-pity.

    As I see it, this kind of world-view is completely ego driven. Everyone in the world is a threat; either exiled, distracted or bored, a chain-saw killer, a cannibal, a bleeding heart, a virtue-signaling, preening self-righteous do-gooder, a
    deluded idiot, an attention-seeking hypocrite, a self-deluded, holier-than-thou loser in need of validation. The world is sliding into the shitter. And anyone who doesn’t agree is weak. There is no goodness in the world. Only cold logic and evil.

    I know a lot of good people. But none of them are without flaws. We all have a dark side. We all carry pain. To live in the world as a human being is to be bound by paradox. By our nature, we wish to fulfill ourselves as individuals and at the same time we have an insatiable need to belong. It’s a paradox that can never be resolved. To live without going crazy we have to accept that the paradox is reality. It’s inescapable. But what IS escapable is the ego. A lot of compassionate people through history: Buddha, Jesus, Marcus Aurelius, Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., the Dali-Lama have taught us that to escape the bonds of the ego is the only way to be free. But it’s a constant struggle. The ego is relentless. That’s why I write. It offers me moments of freedom when I briefly escape the chains of my own ego and see glimpses of something much bigger and much more fulfilling than the dark, pathetic little sewer that is me
    .
    Updated January 6th, 2020 at 05:51 AM by TL Murphy
  18. Plasticweld's Avatar
    Smith your post makes me feel good. Made me smile, and proud to count you as one of my friends. Well thought out, well said.
  19. Smith's Avatar
    I tend to be one of the people feeling sorry for myself, that PW mentions.

    But as he also mentions, I've enough self-awareness to know that I don't *want* to be one of the people at the Pity Party Table. I don't want to be insufferable. So, I do stop by the table of pity from time to time, say hello, bitch and complain about something, and then force myself to move on. The regulars at the pity party are not your friends. Likewise, the regulars at the bar.

    Like any other echo chamber, you can get stuck in that place and it will warp your perspective. And overtime, as the sun and weather crack and dry your brain and heart, you can find yourself more or less stuck there. Either you have to restore some flexibility to your character, or you have to prevent yourself from ending up that way in the first place.

    I see it as my responsibility to not just be a constant source of negativity. There are people who care. I refuse to believe, as PW seems to do, that every little act of kindness has some sort of tremendous, tangible impact. My experience is that it can be a complete waste of time, will fall on deaf ears, or won't be enough to shift the scales. Sometimes you plant a seed and that shit just dies.

    However, what's the end result of planting no seeds? Of completely giving up? As taxing as it is, I can't help but believe that it's better to have tried than not try at all. The world and the people in it can make it very difficult to keep it up. They're either blind in ignorance, or they actively work to undo the good work. Yet I can't sit there and idly watch as they fuck up everything.

    What I've also found is that if you're expecting a return, or in some manner trying to manipulate good to your own benefit, then your heart isn't in the right place and it's not really "good" at all. This is the lesson of Cain and Able as far as I'm able to understand. Your sacrifices don't mean shit if they're not genuine, if you're just going through the motions, or if there's ulterior motives.

    Just because I've given up hope on love for a variety of reasons, both jaded by the moronic state of our society as well as my own shallowness, doesn't mean I've given up on everything. If you don't like what I have to say about love, or about relationships, or about women, then don't fucking talk to me about it. Talk to me about something else.

    There are individuals such as Steven Pinker and Jonathan Haidt, Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson, Plasticweld and Winston, and many others who give me hope. They care.

    I've discovered that I still care quite a bit.
    Updated January 6th, 2020 at 08:54 AM by Smith
  20. escorial's Avatar
    we're all complicated but to take people on words alone seems a bit vague...
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