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  1. Winston's Avatar
    If Trump is a thug, then A LOT of other candidates and politicians, past and present, are thugs. Case and point being the slander, the mudslinging, the empty promises, fear mongering, media manipulation and spin, scandals, false flags, and on it goes. All thug-like behavior in my book.
    You knocked that one outta the park.

    Yes! All these politicians are poop sandwiches. And we eat the least offensive offal.
    That's why I hate this mindless Trump-bashing. The savvy, brown-nosing politicians know how to massage the media, for the happy ending. They whore their "protected status" (race, gender etc) or pay indulgences at the identify politics shrine. The media then gives them a pass, because they're "nice".

    The fact is, I don't give a rat's arse how "nice" my elected officials are. Especially when their "niceness" is being judged by a lazy, brain-dead sycophantic media.
    Many like Trump because he doesn't play the media's game. I don't like him myself, but as the saying goes: "The enemy of my enemy..."

    And yes. For the most part, the current media IS our enemy. What do you call someone / an organization that doesn't respect you, lies to you and tries to manipulate you? Whatever the opposite of "a friend" is.

    I stand by my conclusion. Unless things change in society, the media and politics, we will get worse than Trump in the future. The crazed left wingnuts could have just rode out the Trump administration with the usual passive-aggressive resistance, sneering and disinvites to The Kennedy Center. But no. They went ALL in. Pushing their bad hand.
    The "Deplorables" that elected him are watching. Was 2016 a fluke? Keep telling yourself that, and throwing gasoline on the fire.
  2. Smith's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcharles
    You're right. The liberal media frequently portrays Trump in the way they want to, ignoring anything useful he has done. But the problem with this argument is that it's only 50% of the story, namely that Trump and his White House does exactly the same thing in Fox News and its ilk. None of this is anything new. Every politican and every associated news outlet spins things the way they want it spun. It doesn't excuse their opponents, nor does it make the negative things he or any other politician has done OK, nor does it make the accurate negative things they report suddenly inaccurate. That is some seriously flawed logic, and phrasing all this as something that's just popped up now that perhaps we ought to give one-way consideration to is disingenuous. It is tacit support.

    Oh, and that whole argument that Trump is somehow worthier because he is unlike any other politician? So is the broke-down, backed-up toilet in my place of work (just to pull a totally random example out of the air). It has never greased the palm of big business and it doesn't try to bullshit me. Still wouldn't be up to much as President though. More poor reasoning.

    Trump isn't some well-meaning buffoon. He's a thug with easy-access rhetoric that has decided to hold the country to ransom to get his way. I guess if people want thugs then he's the man for them. There's an argument for falling into line behind such a person. Such an organisation would probably get a fair bit done quite quickly. But unless you're able to seize some of that power for yourself, none of it involves any kind of freedom. No point kidding yourself over that.

    People don't respond all that much to truth or facts. They respond to feelings of power. I would say this is one valuable lesson we could learn here, that if you are persuasive, or if you can somehow wear down your opponent, you will get your way.
    I wouldn't say he's worthier, unless one wants change and his opponent offers more of the same.

    What that "change" exactly is, and the effects of that "change", are up for debate obviously. I didn't vote for either Hillary or Trump for the record, and I won't be voting for anybody in the sinister Clinton or Bush royal families, and I won't be voting for Trump. The last man I would've voted for was Ron Paul. Too bad his son is a joke.

    The lesser-of-two-evils paradigm is what's to blame for the bar being set so low. Metaphorically speaking, eventually we'll get to a point where people will seriously be considering whether they should vote for Stalin or Hitler. Oh, at least Stalin's genocide is indirect by way of starvation! Hitler is obviously the worse candidate! Wait, no! Hitler's genocide might be intentional but it's only against a certain group, and I'm a member of the Aryan race so Stalin is the worse choice! *shake my fucking head*

    The American people HAVE to draw the line SOMEWHERE, and they have to draw it TOGETHER, or else this country is essentially going down a staircase, one step (election cycle) at a time, until it reaches the landing. No, the landing at the bottom of the stairs is *not* a good place.

    What needs to happen is the paradigm needs to be inverted. I'd rather argue about who the better-of-two-goods is.

    I mean seriously, who repeatedly goes to a restaurant and has difficulty ordering because you can't decide what menu item sucks less? Whoever does that is a fucking fool. Nobody in their right mind would keep going back to a restaurant week after week with the family and actually weigh those options. No, people go to good restaurants and either get the same thing they always get because they don't like change, or they're like my mom and need 10 minutes to decide because so many options sound so appetizing that it's a challenge to make up your mind.

    I wouldn't call Trump a thug lol. Staging a fake nuclear threat and invading a region of the planet sounds like something a thug would do. Yes, I'm talking about Bush. Or stirring shit up with Russian conspiracies the likes of which haven't been seen since my boy McCarthy. You know, something with *real* nuclear implications.

    And for a thug, I'd say he handled that little Korean boy pretty well. Not that the kid isn't going to have another hissy fit to get attention again, but not much Trump or anybody else can do about that. All we can do is try to give something to suck on when he cries and hope he doesn't throw a tantrum and destroy the planet.

    If Trump is a thug, then A LOT of other candidates and politicians, past and present, are thugs. Case and point being the slander, the mudslinging, the empty promises, fear mongering, media manipulation and spin, scandals, false flags, and on it goes. All thug-like behavior in my book.

    Chaffetz and Gowdy are two current exceptions that come to mind, unless there's something about them that I'm ignorant of.
    Updated January 24th, 2019 at 11:49 PM by Smith
  3. escorial's Avatar
    we all have a moral compass which is unique to us alone..we make up our own truths and decide what is right and wrong... has anyone on here lived in an undemocratic system...if you have how does democracy compare with other forms of political doctrine...
  4. epimetheus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcharles
    Haha indeed. It's always - ever since I was a child - baffled me why news must be partisan.
    Same reason we have click bait: it sells. These are businesses, not charities working for the truth. If we want an honest media we need to stop consuming it.
  5. bdcharles's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by escorial
    Fake news,people....is there any need for accuracy on both fronts...
    Haha indeed. It's always - ever since I was a child - baffled me why news must be partisan. Why should it be? No-one's ever given me a satisfactory explanation, other than - and I am literally paraphrasing - 'mumble-mumble-that's-how-it-is'. And this feeds into my understanding of how people are, and why I say that truth doesn't matter for large numbers of us. What matters is how we feel, whether we feel empowered, and a part of something strong. It's the old shit-sandwich method. You could say "You are incredible, you winner, and while it's true that we are ruled by a celestial pink elephant for whom I am the sole spokesperson ergo it's my way or the highway, mostly, ya big hero, you're amazing. You! You! You!" The logic? If you want to continue feeling this way, then you must buy into the associated message, no matter how nonsensical. It is out-and-out hypnotism, what's being out put - not just by the media, but pretty much every mouthpiece for anything. Once one understands this mechanism, the sham of much in life falls right away.

    Of course the flipside is that we're better together. Who cares what we believe as long as your mates have your back.

    EDIT: gee-wizzo I sound as paranoid as a bag of nuts!
  6. escorial's Avatar
    Fake news,people....is there any need for accuracy on both fronts...
  7. bdcharles's Avatar
    You're right. The liberal media frequently portrays Trump in the way they want to, ignoring anything useful he has done. But the problem with this argument is that it's only 50% of the story, namely that Trump and his White House does exactly the same thing in Fox News and its ilk. None of this is anything new. Every politican and every associated news outlet spins things the way they want it spun. It doesn't excuse their opponents, nor does it make the negative things he or any other politician has done OK, nor does it make the accurate negative things they report suddenly inaccurate. That is some seriously flawed logic, and phrasing all this as something that's just popped up now that perhaps we ought to give one-way consideration to is disingenuous. It is tacit support.

    Oh, and that whole argument that Trump is somehow worthier because he is unlike any other politician? So is the broke-down, backed-up toilet in my place of work (just to pull a totally random example out of the air). It has never greased the palm of big business and it doesn't try to bullshit me. Still wouldn't be up to much as President though. More poor reasoning.

    Trump isn't some well-meaning buffoon. He's a thug with easy-access rhetoric that has decided to hold the country to ransom to get his way. I guess if people want thugs then he's the man for them. There's an argument for falling into line behind such a person. Such an organisation would probably get a fair bit done quite quickly. But unless you're able to seize some of that power for yourself, none of it involves any kind of freedom. No point kidding yourself over that.

    People don't respond all that much to truth or facts. They respond to feelings of power. I would say this is one valuable lesson we could learn here, that if you are persuasive, or if you can somehow wear down your opponent, you will get your way.
  8. Smith's Avatar
    We're all capable of hypocrisy and corruption but not everyone is a hypocrite or corrupted. Just like how everybody is capable of evil but not everyone commits evil. To think otherwise is too relativistic for my taste.

    If you can't criticize somebody for being a hypocrite because "you could be a hypocrite at some point in the future" or "you were a hypocrite at some point in the past", one might as well not have a conversation, as it fails to realize what's actually important: whether or not you do anything about being a hypocrite / corrupted-- or in other words, whether or not you are, right now, currently, literally, a hypocrite / corrupted.

    And that's the only way relativism can stay around. By simply, and stupidly, refusing to take things to their logical conclusions. Of course everybody is all the same if you don't care whether or not somebody is evil, but only if they could be.

    People need to stop getting hung up on the potential for wrong-doing. We get it, everybody can commit wrong-doing. We departed from that elementary point a long long time ago, so to keep bringing it up is to do nothing more than filibuster.

    If there's one thing moral relativists should do, it'd be getting on the next one-way trip to Mars.
    Updated January 24th, 2019 at 08:58 AM by Smith
  9. escorial's Avatar
    were all hypocrites and corruptible just not in power for a plethora of reasons...i reckon democracy is built on a myth and it ain't perfect but what's a better alternative...i don't think there is one...do you have any correspondence with public representatives or do you use the media as a source of info...
  10. Smith's Avatar
    Well, it usually is the other side undermining him or a "political hit", because neither party in this fine country of ours cares about being hypocritical.
  11. escorial's Avatar
    what could you bring to the table...
  12. kaminoshiyo's Avatar
    Trump is a "garbage human". I'm not sure how people would arrive at something different- you'd have to be wearing pretty thick glasses to see otherwise. The media slanders him, but the media slanders everyone. You've just got to broaden your idea of media to include all of it and not just left-leaning news. Just because the news is sometimes wrong doesn't mean that he is right. The ironic part is that, as you said, Trump is a major source of fake news, mischaracterization, and slander. But he's a victim and a martyr and so people rally under him. It's absurd.

    They're all garbage. All of them. They'll- to the one- sell you on this I'm an every man's man who hates government so bad I want you to elect and re-elect me into it. And when I fail or do something wrong or illegal? It's the other side. The other side was undermining me or slandering me or it's a political hit.
  13. escorial's Avatar
    are you incorruptible...
  14. Smith's Avatar
    I actually don't mind his attitude. For his entire presidency people still won't shut up about why they think a president "shouldn't act like him". What do they know? Should he act like every other president has acted, like a rat in a suit with that same infuriating, pseudo-professional intonation, inflection? Seriously, every other president / candidate sounds like they went to the same school and go by the same playbook. In other words, THEY LITERALLY SOUND THE SAME. I don't mean they make the same promises, although that is largely true too. I mean "sound the same" as in going to Hollywood where every teenage girl talks like "oh my gawd, did you like seeee thaaat?"

    In my opinion, the reason why Trump is a divisive figure is because if you're on his side, you love him, but if you're against him you'll hate him, and that's because he's unapologetic about who he is and how he is, because he's not some phony, "well-mannered", prettied-up slimeball like Obama or the other 99% of presidents / candidates in the last hundred years.

    When I see "professional" sounding and looking candidates, I see corrupt career politicians, because that's what they are. When I go to a restaurant I don't hope that my waiter is just like the other 1000 fucking waiters / waitresses I've had in my life. I hope they're GENUINE, not a trained robotic dog, for fuck's sake.

    Then if I don't like him, at least the silver lining will be that he wasn't a liar. I hate disingenuous people far far more than somebody who can be a bit of an asshole like Trump.
  15. escorial's Avatar
    Politicians have always lived a double life...an the people that voted for them liked the public image and understood that they like their elected representatives had stuff best left indoors...Trump is more real and open with a closet bursting to open...who can throw a rock at him...I don't think he cares about the mob or average Joe but what he does care about is...I have no idea but like most things the money in your pocket or bank will determine individual perspective on him...I myself can't say he's a billionaire looking after the wealthy or the working people but I like him....
  16. Winston's Avatar
    I have my opinions and reservations about Unions...
    Funny thing is, I'm not even in the union. It's just assumed by people: If you work for "the government", there's the whole list from Menu A that you fit into.
    Same thing with law enforcement. When I worked in corrections, I knew some a-holes in the jail and on the street. And I knew some great people.

    We're so tribal / Balkanized right now. The Other is everyone not in your circle. It makes me sick. Simplistic morons lead by the nose by the media.
    Thanks for doin' the math, Smith.
  17. Smith's Avatar
    Thanks to you, I don't have to wade through mind-numbing Washington Post and other mainstream-news articles.

    I have my opinions and reservations about Unions but I'm certainly not as anti-police as some people are. There are bad cops out there, obviously, but if you're going to distrust or dislike police then you should certainly do it for the right reasons. And also keep in mind the good things.

    I did the math since nobody else fucking wanted to. I admit I'm only a layman and don't have access to the best sources, but I figured that a tenth of a percent of all law enforcement agents are charged with murder. And that's supposed to be an epidemic? That's a fucking miracle.

    EDIT: Sorry, it's actually better than that. If you take the ~750,000 (that's the low end of the estimated range) sworn officers in the US and take the total number of people killed by police in 2017 (less than a thousand, but let's assume it's 1000), and if we assume EVERY SINGLE ONE was a murder (which they clearly weren't), that's 0.13% of all cops being involved in a murder.

    In actuality, something like two dozen were convicted of murder in 2017, which comes out to 0.0032% of the entire police force.

    BUT THE POLICE ARE JUST MOWING PEOPLE DOWN LEFT AND RIGHT MAN.

    I had to retake Algebra 1 so somebody correct my math if I'm doing something wrong.
    Updated January 14th, 2019 at 11:34 PM by Smith
  18. tinacrabapple's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    You do know the alleged reason the Chinese were dumping those phones below cost, right? Supposedly, they were engineered with hidden "back door" access so the Chinese government / military could spy on any user, any time they wanted. Scary stuff.

    Oh, these days we live in.
    Yeah, scary stuff. This is why I went with the LG.
  19. Smith's Avatar
    I don't know if Nancy would win a wizzing contest, but she'd win a shitting contest, because she's full of it.

    The argument I constantly see from the Democrats regarding the wall is "it's racist", a testament to the intelligence of their die-hard supporters.

    Arguments for the wall: public works project. Fulfilling campaign promise (something that presidential candidates have a habit of never doing). Taking hard stance against illegal immigration because it's unfair to all the millions of people who immigrate legally.

    Anyway, my friend hasn't been paid for a long time because of this shut-down. He was smart and had a considerable rainy day fund, but still, he's starting to get a little worried now.

    For the rest of my life I'll see politics as a circus and rodeo. It'd be a lot more interesting if they dressed up in clown and cowboy outfits. Throw in a half-time trapeze act. Some dude off in the corner spitting fire for no reason while he balances on two beer bottles and juggles dildos.

    I'm so sick of it and the two-party, tribal, asinine paradigm, and every moron who is just OBSESSED by it. I just want to shake them by the fucking neck and get them to look behind the curtain.
  20. Winston's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by tinacrabapple
    And that about sums up this week! I almost bought one of those HUAWEI phones but went with an LG from Amazon.
    You do know the alleged reason the Chinese were dumping those phones below cost, right? Supposedly, they were engineered with hidden "back door" access so the Chinese government / military could spy on any user, any time they wanted. Scary stuff.

    Oh, these days we live in.
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