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  1. kaminoshiyo's Avatar
    I can't see why you would need a high-powered anything for home defense. If you are lucky enough to hear your intruder and reach for your gun in time, instead of risking a shoot-out in the dark I would shot in the air, yell "GET THE FUCK OUT" and call the police.

    I can only imagine either a cornered robber or someone specifically there to harm you is going to stay after that.

    * admittedly, this is all theory. I've never been robbed before or had an intruder in my home. I've seen video's of people getting robbed, though, and I don't think I've ever seen one wearing body armor or something where you need the likes of a high-powered rifle for.
  2. Winston's Avatar
    Kev: You know, the lever-action Winchester was the original "assault rifle". 12-14 round capacity. And I'm sure you've see the "cowboy action" experts empty the gun in 6 seconds. Accurately too. Pistol caliber rifles are pretty fun and versatile. Perfect for the aggressive coyotes y'all got down there.
    And yeah, the Korean grocers of LA... DO NOT MESS WITH. I'm pro immigration. A lot of times they understand our rights and values better than we do.

    PW: The KelTec is very cool, but I roll old school with my Mossberg 590. Besides, my shotgun has a bayonet attachment. ?!?
    What do those things hold? 16 rounds? I'm with that old Dick Van Patton show from the 70's "Eight is Enough". But two separate tubes is handy.

    And guys, I'll admit my bias. I'm am a cheapskate. And those AR rifles can be a money pit. I never wanted to get pulled down that rabbit hole of compensators, optics, custom triggers etc. I like to keep it simple. Y'know, because I'm a Fudd.
  3. Kevin's Avatar
    Plastic- l'm lol. l imagine you like a kid in a candy store - "Oo- oo- oo! I want one of those!"

    I have a remmington winchester lever action "cowboy-gun". That's my term for it. It's no bigger than a pellet gun, it's got that lever, and it shoots a 45 colt ( a pistol bullet). I liked it cause I can hit things from the hip. At the outdoor range you count before it hits and there's a poof of dust. Then you adjust. I don't really aim. I point it like a grenade launcher. It's a lot of fun when it goes *clang* on a metal target. You can hit it over and over and over, it's so easy. I think it would work well as a home defense gun. And you could clobber someone with the stock.

    Winston- Jr. bought himself an ar before they went illegal. It's cool looking. I don't have a bug-out bag but he does- incomplete he says. Let's hope we never have to rely on any of that, There was the riots here and for a few days it was every man for himself/No law. The Koreans armed themselves and fought because it was their businesses getting burned and looted. We weren't in the bad zone, thank goodness.
  4. Plasticweld's Avatar
    [video=youtube;brQ3SEKx4cg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brQ3SEKx4cg[/video]

    I bought one of these, it seemed to cool to pass up. It passed my test of, " I don't want to be on the wrong end of it. Mine is loaded with slugs and double aught.

    I have lots of black rifles, they would not be the first thing I would grab.
  5. Winston's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasticweld
    I know from past experience anytime someone uses the words, social justice or level playing fields, I am going to get screwed.
    That term has been co-opted by those that have a preference to use government power as a sledgehammer, instead of a screwdriver.
    Equal opportunity means that the government simply treats everyone equal. A "level playing field" is the state where no preferences are given. No set asides for corporate welfare, no quotas for identity politics.
    SJWs now threaten to use the government Killdozer to crush and grade everyone to the same level. The sad thing is that many in society expect a government, or THEIR President to flatten all the obstacles in their path.
    It is truly a time when those meek of spirit look for strength in others. And those strong in resolve mourn the death of individuality.
  6. Kevin's Avatar
    I was going to make a comment about how even here in LilyLiver we know about some of the strategic euphemisms designed to yank our wallets.

    One thing about a Liverian is they really don't want to pay. They don't mind other people paying, but not them.

    Then I looked thought I should look up 'lily-livered', like maybe I'm senile, right, so I better check it, the definition?

    Vocabulary.com came up and I clicked. Three out of 4 examples were anti-gop or anti-republican usages by newspapers the WaPo and Seattle times. 4 examples in a row were political and anti-.... - from the same slant.
  7. Plasticweld's Avatar
    I know from past experience anytime someone uses the words, social justice or level playing fields, I am going to get screwed.
  8. Winston's Avatar
    PW, all people want today is their "captain" to set autopilot to Free Stuff Land, and not expect ANYTHING from the crew.
    Universal Basic Income? Howsabout Universal "take care of yourself, you're an adult, have you no shame or pride"?
    That's the leader I want. One that tells me I can, provides a level playing field, then gets the hell out of the way.
  9. Plasticweld's Avatar
    Leaders lead. They do it by focusing on objectives and putting those objectives in a form that the others can envision doing and accomplishing them.

    They verbalize the how, inspire those to action and create unity among those who share the common goal.

    A good leader is the captain of the ship who says we are going over there, the crew is the one who does all the work, he just makes it clear as to why they are doing all the work.

    A Good leader is the cheerleader, not the team.

    To what degree you believe in that, is the degree in which you understand how the presidency or any form of leadership works. You can not force others to follow you, but you can get them to want to.
  10. midnightpoet's Avatar
    You touched on a good point. The problem has always been the people. All systems have issues, if we want positive, common sense change the people need to do take charge. This isn't easy by any means, and you don't need to destroy the system, but expecting politicians to solve all your problems is futile.
  11. kaminoshiyo's Avatar
    I think I like the title "SHTF series" more than "Ponder the Unthinkable"

    I agree except to say that you shouldn't trust that the government has a plan either. They always have a plan...until things go wrong...then you find out how screwed the communications between this and that were, how crappy the funding or supply really was, how people were just checking off boxes without thoroughly proofing things. etc. Basically, have your own plan ready for something to go wrong.

    That being said...since when did recessions become acceptable, lol. You'd think it was winter the way people talk about it. If there's a recession it's because someone screwed up and acting like it's a natural occurrence sounds like a perfect way for the guilty to wipe their ledgers without paying a dime and without any responsibility.
  12. midnightpoet's Avatar
    "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

    A. Lincoln

    As someone who has studied history, you would think the human race would learn from its mistakes. It seems not.

    Another old quote from Shakespeare: : "A plague on both their houses!"

    Both sides need to look in the mirror and see their errors. Is that even possible?
  13. Winston's Avatar
    If Trump is a thug, then A LOT of other candidates and politicians, past and present, are thugs. Case and point being the slander, the mudslinging, the empty promises, fear mongering, media manipulation and spin, scandals, false flags, and on it goes. All thug-like behavior in my book.
    You knocked that one outta the park.

    Yes! All these politicians are poop sandwiches. And we eat the least offensive offal.
    That's why I hate this mindless Trump-bashing. The savvy, brown-nosing politicians know how to massage the media, for the happy ending. They whore their "protected status" (race, gender etc) or pay indulgences at the identify politics shrine. The media then gives them a pass, because they're "nice".

    The fact is, I don't give a rat's arse how "nice" my elected officials are. Especially when their "niceness" is being judged by a lazy, brain-dead sycophantic media.
    Many like Trump because he doesn't play the media's game. I don't like him myself, but as the saying goes: "The enemy of my enemy..."

    And yes. For the most part, the current media IS our enemy. What do you call someone / an organization that doesn't respect you, lies to you and tries to manipulate you? Whatever the opposite of "a friend" is.

    I stand by my conclusion. Unless things change in society, the media and politics, we will get worse than Trump in the future. The crazed left wingnuts could have just rode out the Trump administration with the usual passive-aggressive resistance, sneering and disinvites to The Kennedy Center. But no. They went ALL in. Pushing their bad hand.
    The "Deplorables" that elected him are watching. Was 2016 a fluke? Keep telling yourself that, and throwing gasoline on the fire.
  14. Smith's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcharles
    You're right. The liberal media frequently portrays Trump in the way they want to, ignoring anything useful he has done. But the problem with this argument is that it's only 50% of the story, namely that Trump and his White House does exactly the same thing in Fox News and its ilk. None of this is anything new. Every politican and every associated news outlet spins things the way they want it spun. It doesn't excuse their opponents, nor does it make the negative things he or any other politician has done OK, nor does it make the accurate negative things they report suddenly inaccurate. That is some seriously flawed logic, and phrasing all this as something that's just popped up now that perhaps we ought to give one-way consideration to is disingenuous. It is tacit support.

    Oh, and that whole argument that Trump is somehow worthier because he is unlike any other politician? So is the broke-down, backed-up toilet in my place of work (just to pull a totally random example out of the air). It has never greased the palm of big business and it doesn't try to bullshit me. Still wouldn't be up to much as President though. More poor reasoning.

    Trump isn't some well-meaning buffoon. He's a thug with easy-access rhetoric that has decided to hold the country to ransom to get his way. I guess if people want thugs then he's the man for them. There's an argument for falling into line behind such a person. Such an organisation would probably get a fair bit done quite quickly. But unless you're able to seize some of that power for yourself, none of it involves any kind of freedom. No point kidding yourself over that.

    People don't respond all that much to truth or facts. They respond to feelings of power. I would say this is one valuable lesson we could learn here, that if you are persuasive, or if you can somehow wear down your opponent, you will get your way.
    I wouldn't say he's worthier, unless one wants change and his opponent offers more of the same.

    What that "change" exactly is, and the effects of that "change", are up for debate obviously. I didn't vote for either Hillary or Trump for the record, and I won't be voting for anybody in the sinister Clinton or Bush royal families, and I won't be voting for Trump. The last man I would've voted for was Ron Paul. Too bad his son is a joke.

    The lesser-of-two-evils paradigm is what's to blame for the bar being set so low. Metaphorically speaking, eventually we'll get to a point where people will seriously be considering whether they should vote for Stalin or Hitler. Oh, at least Stalin's genocide is indirect by way of starvation! Hitler is obviously the worse candidate! Wait, no! Hitler's genocide might be intentional but it's only against a certain group, and I'm a member of the Aryan race so Stalin is the worse choice! *shake my fucking head*

    The American people HAVE to draw the line SOMEWHERE, and they have to draw it TOGETHER, or else this country is essentially going down a staircase, one step (election cycle) at a time, until it reaches the landing. No, the landing at the bottom of the stairs is *not* a good place.

    What needs to happen is the paradigm needs to be inverted. I'd rather argue about who the better-of-two-goods is.

    I mean seriously, who repeatedly goes to a restaurant and has difficulty ordering because you can't decide what menu item sucks less? Whoever does that is a fucking fool. Nobody in their right mind would keep going back to a restaurant week after week with the family and actually weigh those options. No, people go to good restaurants and either get the same thing they always get because they don't like change, or they're like my mom and need 10 minutes to decide because so many options sound so appetizing that it's a challenge to make up your mind.

    I wouldn't call Trump a thug lol. Staging a fake nuclear threat and invading a region of the planet sounds like something a thug would do. Yes, I'm talking about Bush. Or stirring shit up with Russian conspiracies the likes of which haven't been seen since my boy McCarthy. You know, something with *real* nuclear implications.

    And for a thug, I'd say he handled that little Korean boy pretty well. Not that the kid isn't going to have another hissy fit to get attention again, but not much Trump or anybody else can do about that. All we can do is try to give something to suck on when he cries and hope he doesn't throw a tantrum and destroy the planet.

    If Trump is a thug, then A LOT of other candidates and politicians, past and present, are thugs. Case and point being the slander, the mudslinging, the empty promises, fear mongering, media manipulation and spin, scandals, false flags, and on it goes. All thug-like behavior in my book.

    Chaffetz and Gowdy are two current exceptions that come to mind, unless there's something about them that I'm ignorant of.
    Updated January 24th, 2019 at 11:49 PM by Smith
  15. escorial's Avatar
    we all have a moral compass which is unique to us alone..we make up our own truths and decide what is right and wrong... has anyone on here lived in an undemocratic system...if you have how does democracy compare with other forms of political doctrine...
  16. epimetheus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bdcharles
    Haha indeed. It's always - ever since I was a child - baffled me why news must be partisan.
    Same reason we have click bait: it sells. These are businesses, not charities working for the truth. If we want an honest media we need to stop consuming it.
  17. bdcharles's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by escorial
    Fake news,people....is there any need for accuracy on both fronts...
    Haha indeed. It's always - ever since I was a child - baffled me why news must be partisan. Why should it be? No-one's ever given me a satisfactory explanation, other than - and I am literally paraphrasing - 'mumble-mumble-that's-how-it-is'. And this feeds into my understanding of how people are, and why I say that truth doesn't matter for large numbers of us. What matters is how we feel, whether we feel empowered, and a part of something strong. It's the old shit-sandwich method. You could say "You are incredible, you winner, and while it's true that we are ruled by a celestial pink elephant for whom I am the sole spokesperson ergo it's my way or the highway, mostly, ya big hero, you're amazing. You! You! You!" The logic? If you want to continue feeling this way, then you must buy into the associated message, no matter how nonsensical. It is out-and-out hypnotism, what's being out put - not just by the media, but pretty much every mouthpiece for anything. Once one understands this mechanism, the sham of much in life falls right away.

    Of course the flipside is that we're better together. Who cares what we believe as long as your mates have your back.

    EDIT: gee-wizzo I sound as paranoid as a bag of nuts!
  18. escorial's Avatar
    Fake news,people....is there any need for accuracy on both fronts...
  19. bdcharles's Avatar
    You're right. The liberal media frequently portrays Trump in the way they want to, ignoring anything useful he has done. But the problem with this argument is that it's only 50% of the story, namely that Trump and his White House does exactly the same thing in Fox News and its ilk. None of this is anything new. Every politican and every associated news outlet spins things the way they want it spun. It doesn't excuse their opponents, nor does it make the negative things he or any other politician has done OK, nor does it make the accurate negative things they report suddenly inaccurate. That is some seriously flawed logic, and phrasing all this as something that's just popped up now that perhaps we ought to give one-way consideration to is disingenuous. It is tacit support.

    Oh, and that whole argument that Trump is somehow worthier because he is unlike any other politician? So is the broke-down, backed-up toilet in my place of work (just to pull a totally random example out of the air). It has never greased the palm of big business and it doesn't try to bullshit me. Still wouldn't be up to much as President though. More poor reasoning.

    Trump isn't some well-meaning buffoon. He's a thug with easy-access rhetoric that has decided to hold the country to ransom to get his way. I guess if people want thugs then he's the man for them. There's an argument for falling into line behind such a person. Such an organisation would probably get a fair bit done quite quickly. But unless you're able to seize some of that power for yourself, none of it involves any kind of freedom. No point kidding yourself over that.

    People don't respond all that much to truth or facts. They respond to feelings of power. I would say this is one valuable lesson we could learn here, that if you are persuasive, or if you can somehow wear down your opponent, you will get your way.
  20. Smith's Avatar
    We're all capable of hypocrisy and corruption but not everyone is a hypocrite or corrupted. Just like how everybody is capable of evil but not everyone commits evil. To think otherwise is too relativistic for my taste.

    If you can't criticize somebody for being a hypocrite because "you could be a hypocrite at some point in the future" or "you were a hypocrite at some point in the past", one might as well not have a conversation, as it fails to realize what's actually important: whether or not you do anything about being a hypocrite / corrupted-- or in other words, whether or not you are, right now, currently, literally, a hypocrite / corrupted.

    And that's the only way relativism can stay around. By simply, and stupidly, refusing to take things to their logical conclusions. Of course everybody is all the same if you don't care whether or not somebody is evil, but only if they could be.

    People need to stop getting hung up on the potential for wrong-doing. We get it, everybody can commit wrong-doing. We departed from that elementary point a long long time ago, so to keep bringing it up is to do nothing more than filibuster.

    If there's one thing moral relativists should do, it'd be getting on the next one-way trip to Mars.
    Updated January 24th, 2019 at 08:58 AM by Smith
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