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What's the point...

Is it wrong to worry when your partner decides that even though your in debt, it's the right time to launch a music bussiness? Does having fears mean you do not support them?

Is it wrong to feel pissed off when your wages are lower than either of you expected and then your other half who is planning on being unemployed and earning no money until the music starts to bring in money, am I wrong to be pissed off?

Is it wrong of me to expect anything different after plunging us both into debt, to expect after more than a year not to have it thrown in my face during an arguement?

Or after five years not have his decision to move to a shity small ass city and giving up a greaat job thrown back at me?

Does this mean I don't love them?

Is life meant to be this damn hard, as if so what is the point in anything?

Comments

Oh, gosh, don't lose heart. Things are hard, especially if one's peers seem to be swanning through life with the biggest decision of the moment being along the lines of whether to select the tartine or the mango Napoleon. In the meanwhile, the key thing is to communicate and to empathise. Typically, in my experience, one person tends to be better at this than the other, so rather than that good communicator expecting similar levels of the same from their partner, they do better when leading that communication and making it happen, eliciting it from their partner using their superior skills. That way you can get the other person to understand your worries without them freaking out and taking it all personally, and with luck encourage them to compromise on things. But at the same time make it clear how you feel, and what your worries are, as calmly and clearly as you can manage. It's hard not to lose one's cool, but it pays dividends. It's not fair, for one person to do all of X, but there it is.

Stuff gets thrown in faces - it's just the way a lot of people are. Anticipate it, roll with it, try and recognise that it often comes from a place of passion, and you'll do fine. Best of luck :)
 
This is a difficult one because money (or lack of it) is usually the cause of most arguments. Does he need to start the music business now?
 
I had a whole reply ready that disappeared into the Twilight Zone. So this is take 2.

Let me see if I have this straight.

Your partner, let's call him B, quit a good paying job to move to a smaller town. You also moved there. His new job paid less than the previous one, and you couldn't find a job that would pay as much as either of you expected. So debt was run up, because expenses were more than income.

Your father has a heart attack, adding to your stress.

B now decides, unilaterally, to quit his not-quite-paying-enough job so he can focus on music.

Do I have that right?

Furthermore, when you express fears, concerns, and, yes, anger, his response is to tell you, or imply, that you're crazy and don't love him.

How am I doing? Have I got it?

If so, B has unrealistic expectations.

The two of you are already struggling financially. Putting your finances in further peril is something that should be done with the two of you participating in the decisions. Anything less is a red flag. Sorry.
 
Sometimes I have actually asked myself how in the world people EVER get together at all. It's like you have to walk a fine line all of the time, to be sure that you show support for them, but don't get taken advantage of in the process. I'm sorry you are having this difficulty, but I'm finding I'm reading a little bit more between the lines. So, he made this decision, pressured you to go along with it, and now that it isn't what he expected, he's come up with a different plan, which you see as even worse. I see him accusing you of not caring about him, or his plan, as his own anger at himself coming out. My guess is he's embarrassed that things didn't work out.

So, to answer your questions, no, you are not out line for expressing your concerns and it really shows that you do love him. Can you still talk about things? Can you come up with a new plan that works better? And the point of life is to be able to come through all of this crap and come out on the other side feeling like you have grown. At least I think that's the point. Hoping you can work this out.
 
Not that this will be any help to you but may offer a response to your boyfriend. I have been in 14 businesses since I have been 18, some good, some great, some that barely made it, and some that failed horribly. The most successful business I had took 5 years to show a profit. I mentor other young businessmen and often tell them that you should keep working at your day job until you are making so much money that it would be foolish to keep it. No business makes money the first year. If your lucky by year two you are covering your expenses and keeping a little. The first two years involve making all the mistakes and doing business with all the wrong people. The average new business requires about 70 plus hours a week worth of work. Tell him to work his 40 hours at his day job and put in another 40 and in his new venture. Long hours is part of the game and if he not willing to do that he not going to make it. If for some reason I am wrong he can write the next new book on how make a million with no money and no effort... I will buy the first copy.

https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/05/03/what-percentage-of-businesses-fail-in-their-first.aspx
 
I'm sure this is an extremely stressful situation. I can't blame you for feeling upset, particularly if you think the business will be a sham. I believe that he should still find a way to bring in income, while building his business. If you make such a modest income, how are you guys supposed to pay the bills? He's got to live up to his responsibilities and not its not fair to put you in a vulnerable situation when you are working to pay down your debt.

I hope you guys are able to sort things out in a calm and mature fashion that is fair for both parties- finding a compromise. The upside is if the business does actually bring in money- you'll be glad you took the risk with him. However, most businesses don't bring in money. Good luck!
 
Tesla came to the USA with three cents in his pocket, almost got killed on the boat crossing. Got a job with Edison to repair DC generators. Did the job for Edison, and he refused to pay Tesla. Tesla never forgot it. He quit and did hard labor for three months and earned enough to start his own lab, and then he invented an AC generator which Edison was against. He ended up beating Edison at his own electric power game because of his invention and his invention collapsed Edison's lab in the end, and Tesla became a millionaire, and then he lost it — not once, but two more times while creating other inventions like microwave and high frequency generators. He ended up dying at 95 from being hit by a taxi while crossing the street in New York.

Kill the dream, and you kill the person with the dream. Who needs that for a partner in life. Take the ride and see what happens. Instead of precluding the ending, begin by saying: OK if "WE" are going to do this thing; WE are going all the way. It isn't over until it's over.

a poet friend
RH Peat
 
I think you have to determine if your BF is a dreamer or he really has a plan. If he's a dreamer, the best chance he'll have for getting rich would be Plastic's suggestion to write how to make a million dollars, the easiest way to be to obviously sell a million books on how to make a million dollars.

I'm guessing you're not legally bound to him, so you may ask yourself, is it worth taking a chance on his dreams? Does he care about your own dreams? I don't know your situation but I've been around people who had their schemes all their lives only to fail. The fact is, most of us aren't going to get rich. The best we can do is to do the best with what society has given us. We didn't make the rules; we just have to live by them.
 
RHPeat;bt10708 said:
Tesla came to the USA with three cents in his pocket, almost got killed on the boat crossing. Got a job with Edison to repair DC generators. Did the job for Edison, and he refused to pay Tesla. Tesla never forgot it. He quit and did hard labor for three months and earned enough to start his own lab, and then he invented an AC generator which Edison was against. He ended up beating Edison at his own electric power game because of his invention and his invention collapsed Edison's lab in the end, and Tesla became a millionaire, and then he lost it — not once, but two more times while creating other inventions like microwave and high frequency generators. He ended up dying at 95 from being hit by a taxi while crossing the street in New York.

Kill the dream, and you kill the person with the dream. Who needs that for a partner in life. Take the ride and see what happens. Instead of precluding the ending, begin by saying: OK if "WE" are going to do this thing; WE are going all the way. It isn't over until it's over.

a poet friend
RH Peat

I'm not seeing the correlation.

The main differences I see between your story about Telsa and H.Brown's are :

Timing. Her father just had a heart attack. It's extremely insensitive, at best, to choose this moment to quit his job and become completely financially dependant on her. She has enough stress right now.

Debt. When in debt is not a good time to start a business. Being poor is one thing, but being in debt is another.

People. You didn't mention any family. If Tesla had family and dragged them along without talking it over with them, then he was also insensitive. Of course, in those days it was a man's "right" to be insensitive, so ...


Did Tesla own his home when he quit working for Edison? Did he have land and a garden? Could he fish or hunt if necessary? Back then it was different, so it's a little unfair to compare then to now.


In general :

To be clear, the partner should be able to pursue a dream. And if there's extenuating circumstances that make this moment the best one for pursuing that dream, then he should have the compassion necessary to empathize with her fears and rationally discuss both her and his own concerns.

Now if he did that, I doubt she would have written this blog.

If this is the best time, he needs to explain why. He also needs to outline a plan for how they can get by while he works on the business.

I understand dreams. I'm pursuing my own. But I also know I need to keep food and shelter a priority.

Yes, if you kill the dream you injure the man or woman. But partnership means balancing the dreams of both.
 
Jack

The bigger question is what is the relationship based on? Is it caring or money? Why is she with the guy? Why is he with her? He went somewhere she followed. Why did she do that? Opportunity? Which it sounds like or is there a real commitment in a belief in one another. If she doesn't believe in him; she needs to get out of it now. If she does believe in him; work with him to help fulfill his vision whatever it may be. And she should ask the same of him at the same time.

Tesla never got married but he did have relationships that didn't last. He never owned a home he didn't need to in order to survive. Yet he contributed to the world you live in today with everything thing from your cell phone to the television set you watch and the computer you have. Including radio and TV broadcasting and the internet. He had envisioned it all and wrote about it openly. Yes he was a dreamer, but he brought real fruition to his dreams as well by spending his money to further those dreams into reality.

My point was and still is you can work against one another or you can work with one another. One person cannot do either by themselves, for it takes two to realize it isn't going to work or that it is going to work. There is no way around that at all. And it isn't over until it is over as I said earlier.

Two people working together for a common goal is a stronger force than one when united. Separated the house will fall, the walls will crumble. Make the choice and then live by it. Half way is piss in a barrel. It means nothing to either of them. Real commitment on the other hand means everything to both.

Ask someone to give up who they are, and you are asking them to end the relationship and for them to become your slave. That they need to answer only to your call. That's bull shit in either case. The reality is that everyone needs to be who they are before anything else to maintain self respect and real identity. Without it there is nothing for anyone else. First you have to love the self. Then you can love another.

So what it boils down to is: does she love him and he love her? Does she love who she is with or without him? Does he love who he is with or without her? That's what needs to be answered; then the problems will become united and self determination will do the rest. They will become united or they will go their separate ways.

It sounds to me like there is a bit of selfishness taking place on both sides which needs to be resolved by the two of them. And not us at all. She has wants and desires and he has wants and desires and they are both being selfish about it as a whole without sharing the responsibilities concerning each other. And it's not about what they own materially, but it is about who they are as people. Success in life is nothing based on the material, yet with three cents in your pocket, (like Tesla), you can change the complete world for eternity. Or as long as mankind survives on the planet.

I say: dare to dream, there is nothing to lose at all and everything to gain. If they were in their 70's it might be a different story. But they're not at all.

a poet friend
RH Peat
 
RHPeat;bt10718 said:
Jack

The bigger question is what is the relationship based on? Is it caring or money? Why is she with the guy? Why is he with her? He went somewhere she followed. Why did she do that? Opportunity? Which it sounds like or is there a real commitment in a belief in one another. If she doesn't believe in him; she needs to get out of it now. If she does believe in him; work with him to help fulfill his vision whatever it may be. And she should ask the same of him at the same time.

Tesla never got married but he did have relationships that didn't last. He never owned a home he didn't need to in order to survive. Yet he contributed to the world you live in today with everything thing from your cell phone to the television set you watch and the computer you have. Including radio and TV broadcasting and the internet. He had envisioned it all and wrote about it openly. Yes he was a dreamer, but he brought real fruition to his dreams as well by spending his money to further those dreams into reality.

My point was and still is you can work against one another or you can work with one another. One person cannot do either by themselves, for it takes two to realize it isn't going to work or that it is going to work. There is no way around that at all. And it isn't over until it is over as I said earlier.

Two people working together for a common goal is a stronger force than one when united. Separated the house will fall, the walls will crumble. Make the choice and then live by it. Half way is piss in a barrel. It means nothing to either of them. Real commitment on the other hand means everything to both.

Ask someone to give up who they are, and you are asking them to end the relationship and for them to become your slave. That they need to answer only to your call. That's bull shit in either case. The reality is that everyone needs to be who they are before
anything else to maintain self respect and real identity. Without it there is nothing for anyone else. First you have to love the self. Then you can love another.

So what it boils down to is: does she love him and he love her? Does she love who she is with or without him? Does he love who he is with or without her? That's what needs to be answered; then the problems will become united and self determination will do the rest. They will become united or they will go their separate ways.

It sounds to me like there is a bit of selfishness taking place on both sides which needs to be resolved by the two of them. And not us at all. She has wants and desires and he has wants and desires and they are both being selfish about it as a whole without sharing the responsibilities concerning each other. And it's not about what they own materially, but it is about who they are as
people. Success in life is nothing based on the material, yet with three cents in your pocket, (like Tesla), you can change the complete world for eternity. Or as long as mankind survives on the planet.

I say: dare to dream, there is nothing to lose at all and everything to gain. If they were in their 70's it might be a different story. But they're not at all.

a poet friend

RH Peat

Taking chances when it's only yourself to take care of is one thing. Dragging other people through it is another. And how I, personally, may be benefitting from Tesla and his life choices is completely and utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

If you really think that a person who already made sacrifices for someone who demands, not asks for, demands further "proof" of love is selfish, then you have a definition of selfish that I don't share. And never will.

Kudos to Tesla for making the crossing with only three pennies in his pocket. What does that translate to in today's market? What was the job market at the time. Was his job waiting for him? Was he risking his credit score, or that of another, with his choices? All of those questions show how irrelevant Tesla is to this situation.

Having land for a garden would give a person fairly free food, a necessity. And a place for a shelter, another necessity. Sorry to be so utterly practical, but necessities are important.

Bottom line, whatever Tesla did has not reflection on Brown. Tesla's story is motivational and inspirational. But only a fool would try to live someone else's life story.

The timing of this announcement makes this concerning. The attempt to guilt her instead of calmly discussing it is also concerning.

If this is how he's behaving now, what's going to happen if she ends up in the hospital? He's not exactly showing himself as reliable and trustworthy.
 
Jack
You've heard her story but have you really heard his story? No you haven't! So how can we be sure how he is acting. That's a judgement call that you really can't make at all. In court it would be called hearsay. It's information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; it's rumor. In law: The report of another person's words by a witness, usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.

Mind you I'm not saying you are wrong, but it is difficult to make such a value statement and judgement call by just hearing one side to a couple's complaints. Like her opening statement which writes him off to begin with:
[h=4]What's the point... (?)
This is a wash out statement as an opener. It's one sided from the start. It's an accusation about this person she pretends to be involved with.
It limits who he is as a person. If she wants out of the relationship she should leave and be done with it. This statement does not show a place for middle ground to be reached at all. There is no consideration in that opening.[/h]Well here is the real point — he too is a person with freedom of choice and just what comes to bear in a relationship is each person right to be heard. He's not being heard here at all. Why is she posting this about him? If it was about me from my wife I'd be pretty damned upset. But then I know my wife would never do such a thing, we take the sit down and talk about problems.

In fact it appears as if she is gathering information to be used against his rights to be heard. If you really want to consider fairness, think about that possibility. Do you personally know this person? I don't. He may have some real grievances with her as well. What is she contributing and how much time does she spend on the internet in writing workshops; when she could be supporting both their concerns. It looks to me like she's following her dreams but she doesn't want him to follow his.

If we are going to make guesses about the people involved here; lets consider both people concerned not just one of them. Every relationship has problems it goes with the territory. But working out the problems is part of what makes the relationship viable. What concession can she make if she wants him to give up something? That's more to the point. Where is the common ground here with only one side of the story. We're not getting both sides of the story. What are his concerns about HIS choice with HIS life. We are only being given something that is speculative and one sided. Don't be judging that man like that; it's a kangaroo court. How do we even know that he doesn't have other income somewhere like bonds he could cash in? We don't at all. You are only going by what she has said and not by what he might say. Get real on how one sided this kind of judgement really is as an appearance rather than a real person. He may have been working on this for ten years and you wouldn't know it by what she's presented on this thread. Maybe the connections are right at this time to go ahead. Just when did he promise her a rose garden? You got a clue on that one too?

a poet friend
RH Peat
 
I think I have stated my points well already, but I will do so again, as clearly and succinctly as possible.

It is completely unacceptable for a member of any kind of partnership to make a unilateral decision AND THEN discredit the other partner's thoughts or emotions on the subject.

It is an assumption on my part, I admit, that H's partner did discredit her thoughts and feelings. If he did not, she would not have been asking others if her thoughts and feelings were wrong.

If he had acknowledged her thoughts and feelings, and validated them as reasonable, she might have vented about the situation, but not asked if her thoughts and feelings were reasonable.

It's really not about his right to dream, the validity of his dream, or anything else. It's certainly not about promises made or not made.

It is about how he treated her when the subject was being discussed.
 
maybe he's got a mum and dad to fall back on if it all doesn't work out for him....as for you the point is you made the choices that put you were your at now.....
 
forgot to give you the answer to your..what's the point.....try and make your world everything you wanted it to be
 
Thank you everyone for you advice and thoughts, I truely have been in a dark tunnel recently, but the situation was that me and my partner moved in together five years ago, when I was in university, to help me be more financially stable. However my other half's job fell through and he couldn't get another for six months, which made things hard for us, so I began down the dark path of pad day loans. That job lasted around 9 months before he had to leave it due to them cutting his hours to 3 a week. That jobless period went on for about 10 months.

So I worked any hours I could while still studying at university. My three year course by this point had turned into a five year course due to having to repeat a couple of years. Money was tight and I dug us deeper into the pit of pay day loans, because I wanted to give us everything, I didn't want to upset him by letting him know how tight money was because I didn't want him to feel worse for not having a job. So this job lasted about 8 months until he could not take the bullying from his manager and I let him leave.

This decision lead to the two year stint of my other half being unemployed. Also during this time I tried to manage our finances and found myself having to borrow money from my parents and brother becsuse I could not make the money add up, but agaon did not want my other half feeling bad as he was trying his hardest to find and get a job. Then I ended up in hospital for 8days and had to spend a further 2 weeks out of work to recover, at this time we were having to live off £35 pound a week, so my parents helped us out again and paid our rent, adding to the debt.

I returned to work after a month and spent 2 weeks on reduced hours and labour to build my strength back up. At this point I went into work one morning after saying I coukd return to 40 hours a week to be told I was being made redundant immediately. This caused problems between me and my older brother, who now I don't speak to. We both ended up at this point being able to get benifits, however what was not explained regarding council tax, I thought the entirety of our CT bill was being paid however it was not.

I found another job within three months, everything seemed to be comming up rosie. Then came november when we were hit with nearly 2,000 pound Council Tax arrears letter. I began to be unhappy with my work place and the way I was treated there and found myself a new job (my current management job) and about a month later my other half got taken on at a temp job for 5 months.

Now during this time we discussed that after this temp job had finished we would buy the equipment needed for him to set up his music and art business because it looked like I would be earning 1,300 a month after tax. However we have had upper management shifts at workand this month I recieved only 1,100. Which kicked off the above arguement and my fears were brought to light nad my above questions raised.

I proceeded to break up with him and felt myself die inside as he shut the door and walked out into the night. I realised I loved him more than anything so I made him return. We sat down and looked at what he wants to do and it turns out he does have a plan, so I now feel a little better about it going forward, I have spoken to my work and gotten my hours sorted out by taking my working week from four full days a week to 40 hours spread across 5 days.

Thank you all for your support and wisdom it has helpped me loads over the last couple of days. This arguement came at a very bad time after my fathers recent hospital visit but it seems in my life that once things start to come together, something bad comes along to bite us in the ass. We have struggled in the last five years but we have gotten through it all together. :)
 
H. Brown, you are an awesome person. I am so happy for you that things seem to be working out now, and you and your honey can move forward. Life is so hard sometimes, and I think there would none among us who hasn't gone through something similar, or at least something that taxed us in such a way. Those who say relationships are 50/50 couldn't be more wrong. Sometimes they are 100/0 and you just have to hang on until it swings back again. Good for you, good for your strength of character, and your willingness to not let go. Keep it up. Life may be hard at times, but it can also be very good.
 

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