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R.D. Laing, his book "Knots" and a modern day take for Bloggers by a fan.

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When I was in high school a classmate I barely knew presented me with R.D. Laing's book titled "Knots". So, after reading the book I wrote:

What does he know
that I don't know
he knows about me
I will not read the book
because if I do I will be letting him know
he knows I know more than he thinks I know.
[insert joke] Therefore, the book comes between us


For those unfamiliar with R.D. Laing, he was a stong willed, controversal Scotsman and Psychiatrist who rose to fame in the '60's and was considered the high priest of the Anti-Psychiatry Movement.

He was a large critic of psychiatric diagnosis of Mental Disorders. For example (and the largest of them), he believed Schizophrenia was more of an enlightened state than a disorder.

Note: The high school classmate who passed Laing's book "Knots" on to me was Schizophrenic, a brilliant student.


Now, bloggers you must not miss this.
Then what follows is the "real deal" by R.D. Laing

[FONT=&amp]by [/FONT][FONT=&amp]MAHENDRA [/FONT][FONT=&amp]posted on MAY 11, 2007[/FONT][FONT=&amp]her take on "Knot's
[/FONT]

Jack likes my blog
Therefore I like Jack
Jill doesn’t like my blog
Therefore I don’t like Jill

Jack likes Jill
Jill doesn’t like my blog
They have a fight
Jack doesn’t like Jill

I love Jack for not liking Jill
Jill hates me for making Jack not like her
I hate Jill for hating me
Jack loves me


Real excerpt from the book:


Once upon a time, when Jack was little,
he wanted to be with his mummy all the time
and was frightened she would go away

later, when he was a little bigger,
he wanted to be away from his mummy
and was frightened that
she wanted him to be with her all the time

when he grew up he fell in love with Jill
and he wanted to be with her all the time
and was frightened she would go away

when he was a little older,
he did not want to be with Jill all the time
he was frightened
that she wanted to be with him all the time, and
that she was frightened
that he did not want to be with her all the time

Jack frightens Jill he will leave her
because he is frightened she will leave him.

____________________________________
________

There's a plethora of information out there on Laing, his theories and then other books he authored. If anyone one has something to add it might lead to an interesting discussion.

Or just enjoy reading. Knot to pressure.

Laurie











Comments

On the one hand I sometimes think that R.D.Laing's main aim was to make himself seem acceptable to the counterculture rather than to address mental health issues. On the other, at a time when the alternative was mostly electroshock therapy and/or a punitive raft of medication, I suppose he was somewhat instrumental in kicking the discussion back towards the middle ground.
 
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Originally Posted by SilverMoonThese people were being treated like ailing organizma not persons, sheerly neglected. So he created a rehablitation project where they could interact. It was succesful but only up to a point.
Laing says it starts at the dinner table.

The Underlying Agenda of Love and Control in the Family Unit

..................................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,....-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7j1b6F3MFU

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We Are Frightened Out of Our Own Minds R.D. Laing

One subject of which he discusses here is the Politics of Psychiatry. What is the critera for Mental Illness? Should we all view things the same way. Who sets the standards as such? What about Civil Rights...
...................................................
.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jrdCTnB6Do

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bdcharles;bt14199 said:
On the one hand I sometimes think that R.D.Laing's main aim was to make himself seem acceptable to the counterculture rather than to address mental health issues. On the other, at a time when the alternative was mostly electroshock therapy and/or a punitive raft of medication, I suppose he was somewhat instrumental in kicking the discussion back towards the middle ground.
You might very well be right but I do think his fierce determination to find alternative treatments to use of ECT administered to Schizophrenics trumped any need to be hailed as the genius maverick in the anti-estabiishment era. These people were being treated like ailing organizma not persons, sheerly neglected. So he created a rehablitation project where they could interact. It was succesful but only up to a point. He forged onward.
 
Bard_Daniel;bt14200 said:
Very interesting stuff, SilverMoon. Methinks I should read up on R.D Laing now after reading your piece.
I'll posting some links to YouTube interview and articles. Just Wiki won't cut it.
 
One flew over the cuckoo's nest says it all anti-psychiatry movement. I tied a movie to an essay I wrote and that was the result of the last class assignment off english. That was in 2003, it was in 2008 I think I was diseased. Nice blog silver moon. I am not disagreeing with the electroshock conclusive therapy comments. Let me add I'd never be an advocate for lithium for most others.
 
Theglasshouse;bt14209 said:
One flew over the cuckoo's nest says it all anti-psychiatry movement. I tied a movie to an essay I wrote and that was the result of the last class assignment off english. That was in 2003, it was in 2008 I think I was diseased. Nice blog silver moon. I am not disagreeing with the electroshock conclusive therapy comments. Let me add I'd never be an advocate for lithium for most others.
Thank you, glasshouse. Glad you like my blog. Hope you come back because I'm looking forward to interesting exhanges.

Have you ever seen the movie "A Beautiful Mind"? Russell Crow plays the part of John Nash, a paranoiid schizophrenic,, who attended Princeton and eventually wone the Nobel Prize in Economic Sciences. He underwent series of shock treatments which proved ineffective (as they all do as far as I'm concerned - they are just a temporary "taming" of mind.)

What did help him come to terms with his illlness was his ability to think things through logically.

Here's a poem I had written sometime back about a hospitalized schizophrenic poet. I've known several Schizophenics so was able to roughly create this character.
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Hello silver moon and good to hear from you. I will try to exchange here. Obviously the essay i wrote is long gone. But I remember some arguments I made. Or some ideas.

What I remember of the essay is little now. I remember my English teacher's name was Katie trainer. I use to go to George mason university but had to drop out. I consulted many books in the library. Here I reminisced about how people should in an outcry not take medication. While not familiar with the figure you cited. I know for a fact the movement sounded legit because people were getting sicker according to them for taking medication. Misdiagnosis might have been something I wrote about in the essay. Since nurse Ratched in the movie was a popular symbol. I read and got ideas from Harvard essays and that is how I started that essay. She's authoritarian in the movie. She abused her authority to create punishment. Which is why mentally ill people shouldn't have to suffer when they receive treatment. The way the movie ends is of course with the infamous electroshock convulsive therapy which claims a victim. While the chief goes madder after what he saw. I got a b for that essay, but it was a worthy addition and was my last assignment for her class.

Yes I have seen a beautiful mind but I feel it misrepresents the experiences I went through and Hollywood sugarcoats mental illness and suffering. As depicted the hallucinations that are visual though I never experienced because of an imaginary friend.One could argue John Nash or the person in the movie is illogical which is true. But the hallucinations when visual I think is accompanied by a not knowing what you are seeing. Delusion and delirious ideas are something the schizophrenic pictures. My only visual hallucination didn't make sense. It was a phone call to my house and no one noticed the phone call. I was convinced the phone call had happened and was a bit obsessed that I had been called for something important. The harshness regardless that less than 10 percent of schizophrenics work is another idea. I was convinced a famous writer was talking about me as well.

I wish I could do justice for posting that poem which I enjoyed. However keep up the good work and Vincent van goh I heard was schizophrenic and painted his paintings according to his he saw the world as was Edward Munich's painting the scream.
 
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Originally Posted by Theglasshouse As depicted the hallucinations that are visual though I never experienced because of an imaginary friend.One could argue John Nash or the person in the movie is illogical which is true. But the hallucinations when visual I think is accompanied by a not knowing what you are seeing. Delusion and delirious ideas are something the schizophrenic pictures.
Hi, gh. Re: the movie "A Beautiful Mind". How can one portray inner voices heard by the Schizophrenic on the big screen? What they did was create "characters' to represent Nash's inner voices speaking to him.

Thanks. I'm glad you liked the poem. I've aslo written one along those lines which I'll get to posting.

About delusions. I feel badly for people who do not know they have them. Thinking "Delusions of Grandure"! Peace - Laurie
 
R.D. Laing: "Whether life is worth living depends on whether there is love in life."

I read this quote while listening to the second interview. R.D. Laing, from my limited knowledge, seems to have wanted to show schizophrenics that they were still people. He wanted to treat them with humanity. This was occurring at a time where mental health "professionals" were administering brutal, wrenching treatments.

Here's a group of doctors performing their "work":
Insulin+COma.jpg


Lobotomy. They took away this man's ability to be a human being. R.D. Laing probably saw these in his career, especially when he was starting out. You strip away the ability for the person to be a person. They are no longer who they are, instead they become worse than a shadow of their former self.

ECT. Literally blasting your brain with shocks that incur brain damage. It wasn't concentrated, rather being spread out, destroying your healthy brain cells as well. A shotgun approach to mental health. Of course, I'm not certain they knew the full effects at the time- but horrible nonetheless.

I've read One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest and seen the movie. McMurphy is a criminal rather than a true mental patient, a scoundrel if you will. Someone who has come for a morally reprehensible crime. Nevertheless, he comes to see the people around them, care about them, and daresay even love them. He comes to understand, probably having no knowledge of it before, that these are people just like everyone else, each with their own hopes, dreams, and charms. He tried to help them, and he tried the best that he could.

Remember the scene from the movie with the water fountain? When he fails, he utters, "I tried, god damn it. At least I did that."

They blast McMurphy's brain, over and over again.

When Billy meets his fate, McMurphy lapses into a rage. He strangles Nurse Ratched, no longer able to contain the anger that he has. For this, they lobotomize him. Chief Broom, devastated, does the only thing in his culture that feels right to him. He performs an act of sacrifice, ending the body and, for him, setting the soul free to live once more- to play, frolic, and be a scoundrel with the spirits forever.

The mental health system used to isolate people and take away their uniqueness, their smiles, and their hearts. R.D. Laing saw that and, it appears, he did something he felt he had to do, just like Chief Broom and McMurphy did: he tried.

This paved the way to viewing mental illness in a new way, which Laurie wants to discuss. I'll try to read up more, as I feel my post doesn't do the data that it works with justice, and come up with something for tomorrow.

Great work Laurie! I LOVE discussion.
 
I hope my opinion is decent and is logical. With all respect given to a person who is devout in expressing her beliefs and is admirable. I will just say I have a different schizophrenia which is possible. I have seen it portrayed a little differently in a movie called midnight:s children. Though I admit to portray it with a camera to replicate the hallucination seems not practical. Not profitable. In my case it flashed like a camera moment like in a dream. I don't remember if I was sleeping. But that is how it happened to me. Thanks silver moon to you for the putting up the blog.The case described below was me before the medicine was not working.


[FONT=&amp]As schizophrenia is a mental disorder, most delusions and hallucinations occur within the brain, which makes the disorder difficult to portray in a movie. Perhaps the best-known movie about schizophrenia, [/FONT]A Beautiful Mind[FONT=&amp] (2001), portrays the character’s hallucinations in a greatly exaggerated manner, since hallucinations are mostly auditory rather than visual. Often film writers and directors are poorly informed about schizophrenia, resulting in erroneous portrayals of the people with the disorder, as addressed in the following subsections.[/FONT]


https://hekint.org/2017/01/23/portrayal-of-schizophrenia-in-movies/
 
Hey TheGlassHouse, I'm glad you're contributing to this discussion too!

I think the point of A Beautiful Mind was to try and make the illness real to the viewer. The only way that they could accomplish that was by use of various, almost over the top, hallucinations and delusions- but presenting them, up until a point, in a plausible way. That's why I believe the script, and the directing, was done the way it was. It brought the reader closer to Nash, made his illness seem so real, to show us kind of what it must have been like inside of his mind. That, I do believe, was the point. The connection was key.

I've read Midnight's Children. Rushdie, right? Amazing book.
 
Yes that would be the name of the movie. I think it's the same one because it has a schizophrenic. The book does have a schizophrenic as well. Thank you. I am volunteering to talk about my experience. While that may be the case I understand it is a challenge to do.
 
I'm glad you are Theglasshouse. This is a great discussion! :D

To go back to Laurie's discussion points: How do you feel about the current state of the medical field of psychiatry and the basis of law considering mental illness? How do you feel about this? What do you think is good and bad- and what needs to be changed?

(I'll be doing research and trying to participate in this discussion too. I just saw you were online and want to let you have a go at it first.)
 
I wish schools were more open to the idea that they should be like universities. On the one hand you need an attorney to represent you in court I read so that you get disability benefits. I also wish people just as mentally diseased people got more financial help are when they are stable. The consequences of of a bad childhood set the rest of your life in danger of becoming diseased ( depression is a hidden illness like schizophrenia that goes undetected and maybe parents need to be checked and followed up with appointments regardless of mentally healthy or not. This as well means psychologists are paramount to society and childhood). I use to go to McLean high school. The psychologist at the time did not help me. I went to a medical facility for diplomats since all diplomats in that region of the country go to Walter reed in bethesda. Psychologist should take in mind the cultural background of students. She took it easy. My childhood days made me sensitive to stress and depression. This calls for researching early childhood since a baby to when they start experiencing school. I think the people who do not go back to school, are set up for failure. As they should not always admit the smartest people to universities. The philosophy of schools is one that if do not master your subjects basic competencies in the curriculum it becomes a battle to survive academically. The secondary institutions don't help people with extreme anxiety or schizophrenia. It's to perform academically to meet expectations (accommodations for testing is not enough but counseling, psychology, and competency based testing to help serve people whose parents came from underprivileged backgrounds such as poverty). My solution is to inform people to go to community colleges and collaborate with psychologists.

Community colleges if possible should be low cost more than already for the mentally ill. They have health costs and college is expensive. Medical costs and the age factor should be important when someone is going back to school. To grow an economy it is necessary since schizophrenics in countries in less than 10 percent work. Accommodations are not enough. According to statistics despite having stellar universities the United States is behind countries such as Norway which is in the top 3 in education in the world ( achievement in schools). The educational model is deficient and there needs to be change. Economic factors keep disabled people from studying because of the high costs of living with disabilities and not being able to work.

Community colleges are the first line of defense for this reason. Public education needs more funding. That would lessen the gap between the rich and middle class and poor and so on.

All schools need psychiatrists and psychologists to detect problems early and counselors experienced serving students with mental disorders. Online distance may be a solution.

Advocacy for mentally ill people by school administrators such as the principal example.

To go into remission for mental disease others need policies school administrators need to be made to care by law ethics and best practices. If you have a mental disease you cannot go to college unless stable. Let a psychologists who knows sociology of the parents and psychiatry give the green light.

We live public and private lives as people. We must know what are a person's hidden needs.
 
Hi, glasshouse. Your answers to Daniels's questions were covered exceptionally well and I entirley agree with all that you pointed to - for example
All schools need psychiatrists and psychologists to detect problems early and counselors experienced serving students with mental disorders. Online distance may be a solution.
When there's not enough money to go around academic interventionalists - psychiatrists, social workers even school councelors are considered nonessential.

Really? What's more important? A school employing athletic coaches or mental health workers? We have the answer but not the solution. It boils down to the political - where funds are to be allocated.

But we are not without hope nor help.

NAMI "National Alliance on Mental Illness" is a strong advocacy agency which addresses these problems and fights to de-stigmatize Mental Illness.

.
https://flnamihernando.org/about-nami-hernando/mission/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh4q73Z6Z4gIVmEwNCh01OAjjEAAYAiAAEgL6x_D_BwE

To go into remission for mental disease others need policies school administrators need to be made to care by law ethics and best practices. If you have a mental disease you cannot go to college unless stable. Let a psychologists who knows sociology of the parents and psychiatry give the green light.
Here, you're is same mind with R.D. Laing. (I turn to the psychiatric institution keeping that of the school's in mind). When a patient is in remission follow up is crucial. Laing created the "Rumper Room" Project where 12 Schizophrenics where freed from being shackled and placed in a recreational room setting where for one year they were allowed to communicate with each other like "human beings".

Once stabilzed, they were returned to their families. Within a year's time, they were right back in the hospital. This lead him to examine the familiy unit and there he discovered - just what you pointed to "The Sociology of the Parent", the root of the problem

So many are not blessed with nurturing parents. Where do we go? We go to our friends, family figures we can trust. And I firmly believe "Knowledge is Power". Read and learn about one's given Mental Illness. Share "information" with others in same plight. Form one's own community. Connect with NAMI. Keep spreading awareness...

And thank you, glasshouse, for doing so. Laurie





 
Thank you silver moon for thinking the post added or contributed something. I know why I added you to my list of friends. Because we talk about things here to help cope with our problems . Thanks for posting the blog. I felt compelled to write something since you always share opinions on these subjects. I use to go to nami myself. The one I would go to is in falls church virginia. I think every state has them and I urge then to go if they don't even suffer from mental illness. The therapist is frequently very informed on past experiences of other people and what they tried. Even people I have seen without money for medicine go. Your blog is well informed. Your friend who told you about this psychiatrist is well informed and smart. I hope what I say can be as enlightening to people about life. It is difficult but there are good support networks out there.
 

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