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  1. escorial's Avatar
    a puff...
  2. Kevin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by escorial
    I was so upset I cried all the way to the chipshop...greatest line in a song...jilted John by jilted john
    that effing Gordon...
  3. escorial's Avatar
    I was so upset I cried all the way to the chipshop...greatest line in a song...jilted John by jilted john
  4. Kevin's Avatar
    Chroist..Suspense is killing me. Okay, what song was it?! What line brought a tear?
  5. Winston's Avatar
    PW, clear, concise and to the point, as usual.


    Quote Originally Posted by bdcharles
    t... Blogs like these are a case in point. If we are confident in our opinions, why vocalise it? I suggest its because we do feel attacked which means we do care about the opinions of others...

    ...I suppose it ultimately boils down to what is important to us - quality of life, or independence, or maybe something else.

    JMO though
    I'm good with what you're saying, totally makes sense.
    I would just add that even Libertarian-leaning misfits like myself feel the need, the duty, to occasionally speak-up. It's like the analogy of the teenager, the bottle of Wild Turkey and the car. The culture I grew up in, we thought all those things were compatible. Obviously, they are not. And there was always one "killjoy" in the group telling us to sleep it off, or hiding the keys so we didn't run over people in a drunken stupor and kill someone. When you respect one another, you listen to everyone. Even the killjoy.

    For me, a lot of society looks like that drunken teenager. So yeah, I speak-up. To not do so would be morally repugnant.

    We're constantly drawing and re-drawing the line between "independence" and "quality of life". Some want to swaddle society in bubble wrap, whereas I'd rather let people learn from banging their head once or twice.
    If no one could ever be hurt, some would consider that Nirvana. I would see that as Hell. No struggle or pain means no growth or advancement.

    Just because I want to peel a few layers of bubble wrap off doesn't mean I hate people and want them to be hurt. However, it does get tedious those times when the power goes out, and a cashier can't make change without mechanical help. So, I'm more than a bit biased on the whole "self-reliance" and "think for yourself" dogma. I'm selfish. I want a to deal with tougher, smarter, more resilient citizens. Not through dogma, indoctrination or conformity. But by insisting that people think. Challenge the status quo. Even if it's a buzzkill.
  6. bdcharles's Avatar
    My personal opinion on opinions is that it doesn't matter whether they're true or not, or correct or not, or well-reasoned or what-have-you. The purpose of an opinion is not to express a truth but to express group membership and one's own identity and place in the world. And actually, that's far more useful. Early humans didn't care a fig whether the world was round or flat as log as they could overpower a stag or some other animal, and club together for warmth and society. I personally don't believe that modern humans are so different. Yes, knowledge is power, but power is also power. We have, should we choose to use it, the capacity for reason and logic and understanding but that doesn't mean that's all we can do. It doesn't also mean that what we reason out is always used for reasonable, truth-heavy, honest purposes.

    If we feel that some people are trying to shut us down, it might be our opinion that they fear what we have to say, or don't understand it, or that their opinion is challenged and something in them is triggered as a result. Again I would say that's an identity statement rather than a truth one. Looked at objectively, if we say we don't care what others feel about our opinions, then, true or not, that puts us outside their group. It presents something potentially inimical to it. That's why those other people react as they do. I put it to such outsiders however that they (okay, at times, "we") are not so different. Blogs like these are a case in point. If we are confident in our opinions, why vocalise it? I suggest its because we do feel attacked which means we do care about the opinions of others. Heresy to suggest it, I know, but most people, under it all, do - apart from perhaps sociopaths, and I've seen no evidence of any of those here. Of course we care. We've by and large evolved to, because the ones that didn't failed to survive for long.

    People often present this "I don't care what others think" aspect as a show of strength. But if that were true, they'd never say it. They'd just be it. There's this narrative that caring what others think is weakness and drives conformity. And I suppose, in a way it is, in terms of who could survive longer on their own. But surviving on one's own is not our default, optimal state. If one is having to do that, something's already gone wrong somewhere upstream and everything thereafter is damage limitation. The strongest state is accepting that we may have to conform to the group to thrive which means occasionally being vulnerable. I suppose it ultimately boils down to what is important to us - quality of life, or independence, or maybe something else.

    JMO though
  7. Plasticweld's Avatar
    Revelation 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


    Kind of says it all. You are in an environment here that thrives on fantasy, emotion, and feelings, to expect otherwise is naive.
  8. Phil Istine's Avatar
    Keep submitting to save on wallpaper.
  9. Darren White's Avatar
    I know the feeling
  10. escorial's Avatar
    Everyone has their own moral compass and they make up their own truths...as always the great unwashed will either agree or disagree
  11. Firemajic's Avatar
    I love your poem... it reminds me of the horror I feel every year as I watch a televised event of a magnificent 80 year old blue spruce brought in to by truck to deck the White house lawn.... my property ended at the edge of a Christmas tree farm and I would walk there after a new snow and admire these small trees in all their glory, gently dusted and glittering with frost and snow... and an occasional bird's nest... lovely things destined for the trash...
  12. JustRob's Avatar
    Yes, the WF powers that be have apparently chosen to overlook poetry as a spontaneous event that cannot be rehearsed and revised and they have relegated it to the status of idiosyncratic personal blogging. Personally I often prefer the spontaneity of real life thoughts to artistic contrivances that have had to be engineered into something that they originally weren't for the sake of the art. When I read a too perfect piece of poetry I just wonder whether anybody actually coherently thought that or whether it was created as a collage of fragments of thoughts assembled over a period. In a sense there is fictional poetry like that and real spontaneous poetry like yours, two very different concepts.

    I know that you seldom post your poetry in WF nowadays because of the new constraints and I think it is a shame, but there we are. It's their website and they can choose what they want to allow on it and how it should be presented. Having recently read in Clark's blog Sharp Darkness about the indistinct boundaries of poetry I do wonder how anyone can draw a line. The issue for critics of spontaneous poetry should be not how to improve on the words already written but how to improve one's style in what one will write in the future, but maybe that's a concept too far for some. There's a big difference between giving the appearance of being a writer and learning to think regularly as a writer does. Only what we write spontaneously reveals the latter.
  13. BlondeAverageReader's Avatar
    Thanks Winston, sadly my odd odes are not allowed on the poetry threads
    as they are what they are, no critique needed equals Blog.
  14. Winston's Avatar
    Congrats on your first blog post! What took you so long?
    Well, at least you started off with a great poem. Right in my zone. Thanks for posting it.
  15. -xXx-'s Avatar
  16. JustRob's Avatar
    I am amused that you are sick of people questioning whether something is poetry when I approach my prose in the converse way by wondering whether it is too poetic at times, but I agree that if it has the desired impact it doesn't actually matter how one categorises it.

    Years ago I posted a fragment of prose from my novel in the poetry thread asking whether it could be regarded as poetry or at least poetic, but nobody responded at the time. It's HERE. I think that in my writing I often seek to trigger subliminal associations in the reader's mind that add an extra dimension to it. Maybe this is where the parallel with poetry arises, that there is potentially more impact than the meaning of the words alone imparts. In that sense we are trying to share the deeper chemistry of our own thoughts with our readers I suppose.

    I have always claimed that my prose is my poetry, so clearly don't care much about the distinction myself.
  17. clark's Avatar
    Sick of the Prose/Poetry Whine

    If I now finally understand the Blog bit, this is the place to vent, presumably on a topic relevant to writing? well, I'm fed-up to HERE with the ongoing Is It Poetry or Not bleat. We have so many forms jostling for attention right now as 'poetry' that we should give up this annoying search for 'definitions' and just get on with our work. If 'definitions' prove of some value to further the work, they will emerge. In past eras, literary dictators could impose their will on writers--Dr. Johnson's imperious judgments were regarded by most 18th-century writers as only marginally less compelling than the Voice of God--but now we 'recognize' Form and Voice almost as though it comes from the skin through USE, rather than prescription.

    I came to this tentative conclusion from a lifelong fascination with Imagism and, more specifically and recently, from watching nd hearing KATE TEMPEST recite, without notes, a 25-minute poem on YouTube. Now, had she written it and memorized it? Amazing feat. Or had she written parts of it, had an outline in mind for the rest, and just made it up on her feet? Or did she make up the whole damn thing on her feet, in front of her audience? Of course, it doesn't matter: the poem is all. But look to her style--a significant component of her presentation is VERY prosy and conversational, like we were on her porch, chatting about society and childhood and relevance and failures and triumphs and like that there. But the overall intangible EFFECT is poetic. Intriguing...…………….need I care WHY?
  18. Phil Istine's Avatar
    Let's hope he wasn't an Everton supporter.
  19. Irwin's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mrmustard615
    Irwin. Why don't you post this in All Thing Music?


    I like a lot of your list by the way
    Thanks! I'm thinking about posting it there along with a reason each album made the list. Maybe in a few days.
  20. mrmustard615's Avatar
    Irwin. Why don't you post this in All Thing Music?


    I like a lot of your list by the way
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