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  1. -xXx-'s Avatar
    i love this!!!!

    *stares at same*
  2. Irwin's Avatar
    If his re-election is for the good of the country, it's not an impeachable offense...

    ... is the latest crazy defense.
  3. tinacrabapple's Avatar
    Almost makes you feel defensive. I'm really not an American.
  4. clark's Avatar
    Winston -- I agree. No one outside the people directly impacted by their kindness and compassion weeps the weep for the unsung heroes (gee! that might catch on!) in every community in every corner of the globe. Perversely, they are responsible for livingthe values that are projected over time by the tribe on a Hero. How many quietly courageous, strong, morally dedicated, unknown warriors did it take before a battle-obsessed tribe like the Anglo-Saxons defined that single Hero in its legends and stories, culminating finally in a poet creating Beowulf. I'm confident that, could we push aside the veils of pre-history, we'd find the pantheon of the Greek gods was created by that same tribal impulse to focus the best and worst of its needs on striking Individuals.

    The foundation for your downright bitter and uncompromising rejection of Kobe as a Great Hero is that the adulation pouring out thru the media is dramatically misplaced . . .but not that the IDEA of the Hero is misplaced. Is that fair? Were Kobe WORTHY of all this distress, you'd be fine with that? For Believers, I would think Jesus would be an example of a worthy Hero. American value systems are interesting as regards this issue of worthy Heroes. I will mention only one: the American President. I am not a student of international politics, but I know a little. . .and I have never heard of a Head of State elected in a fair election by the people who has the staggering amount of individual power enjoyed by the American President. Just one example: thru Administrative Orders or Executive Privilege or whatever they're calling it, the President can pretty well do any fucking thing he wants. I suppose he'd be pushing it to directly and arrogantly break the law for personal gain, but Trump has done major things 200+ times in 3 years and a few months (as did Pres. Obama before him), just because he liked an idea. What interests me here in the Romantic side of the American national character, that its legislators would vest such awesome power in ONE person. The faith that takes is monumental. It is, I would suggest a faith focused on creating a Hero, a Worthy Hero. I was studying in the USA when Kennedy was assassinated. From the grieving, it was clear that most Americans felt their personal Hero had been struck down.

    Just a few thoughts to kick around. v
  5. Winston's Avatar
    Oh, how far we've fallen.

    Yes Clark, your historical references are valid. And poignant. But instead of great warriors (or hunters) risking their lives in the bold pursuit of duty, honor, and protecting their "tribe", we get these quasi-vapid pop-culture heroes.
    Kobe Bryant did not jump on a grenade. He didn't save the Earth from a horrific asteroid impact. He died in a meaningless accident. His life prior to that was impressive in some ways, but nowhere near the level to justify the fawning news coverage and near deification. Again, he played a game. He was rich, and died young. Tragic, but otherwise not noteworthy. It's that simple.

    I have no animus for those rending their garments in grief, wailing and lamenting a "great man". Anyone can choose who they bond / identify with, even if it's some millionaire stranger you saw on TV. Just doesn't make sense to me.
    Especially when there are some much more deserving:

    Sister Margaret volunteered in the jail I worked at. She worked with an organization called "Friends Outside" that provided a bunch of family and support services not offered by the government. As a Nun, she took a vow of poverty, and literally had nothing. My wife also worked in the jail, and developed a friendship with Sister Margaret. The Sister confessed that once a week she would buy herself a chocolate bar, and felt guilty for it (Catholic, right?).
    The inmates tried to manipulate and con the Sister daily. She knew, but helped and loved them nonetheless. She was old, but worked tirelessly as a liaison with inmate families, helping them with finding money for rent and feeding their kids. My wife told me that Margaret took one vacation in five years. Only because the Diocese made her. She was hard in conviction, but her spirit was as warm and welcoming as The Savior she served.
    She died some time back. I'm can't remember when, because there wasn't wall-to-wall news coverage at the time. Maybe if she had more money, and died in a fiery helicopter crash...
  6. midnightpoet's Avatar
    True, Clark. We can surmise this may have started among the paleolithic hunters, the tribe probably looked up to the best hunter, maybe he killed a sabre tooth, saving the tribe (probably exaggerated, but oh the stories). Doesn't always end well, though.
  7. clark's Avatar
    Cultures need heroes. From The Epic of Gilgamesh (ca 2150 - 1400 BCE), generally regarded as the oldest surviving piece of written literature, to the gross slaughter-house madness of John Wick 1, 2, 3, and you can rest assured 4, 5, 6 . . . ordinary people focus their hopes, ambitions, dreams, and sense of moral/physical strength on ONE individual. The Hero [at the other end of the scale is the Scapegoat, on whom a culture heaps its sins, inadequacies, failures, and fears. The biblical Jesus is both]. Hitler used Nietzsche's Ubermensche as a model for his dream of the ideal Aryan man, and as a partial justification for the Nazi genocide against the Jews. If you can focus the people on a single image, the focus alone marginalizes the pain and desperation of your own prospects . . .if only for a while.

    I think that's what's happening here. The Death of a Hero in battle--that's his role--doing what he's supposed to do for us, is certainly a Bad Thing, but for a Hero to die in a stupid accident -- that is shocking, demoralizing, completely unacceptabble. It reminds us that if one of our Heroes has clay feet . . .fuck! so do WE!
  8. midnightpoet's Avatar
    Yes, it's not just Kobe - people (all over the world it seems) are going to superheros, celebrities, even politicians more often now like there's something missing in their lives but don't know what it is so they hang onto basically hero worship. Trouble is, most if not all of them have feet of clay.
  9. escorial's Avatar
    SH...life would be tragic if it wasn't so funny.......
  10. Smith's Avatar
    I think part of the answer can be found towards the end of your post. There are many people who feel the same way about Stephen Hawking or Mother Theresa, that you feel about Kobe.

    Of course, I think we can at least make an objective distinction that one brought entertainment (and perhaps some inspiration), while Stephen Hawking advanced science in many ways that have trickled down to benefit our daily lives. One benefited a culture with bread and circus; the other was a boon to humanity as a whole, advancing our understanding of the universe. Of course, while bread and circus is okay in moderation, likewise we must be cautious about scientific advancement. As cliche as it might be, Jurassic Park is a good (albeit fictional) example of why. Science doesn't ask if it should. Only if it can.

    I am impressed by the level of skill and amount of dedication that a man like Kobe showed. I also value the way that he won and lost; his character, something EVERYBODY can learn from. And some of it is about the "personal" connection, although it seems like a misuse of the term. People may have followed him since they were a little kid, and have all of these memories not only of Kobe, but of their favorite team winning, and celebrating that with friends. There's an idea that on and off the court, these celebrity athletes represent the team's hometown. Misplaced sense of pride? May be.

    I do think people invest a little too much into that... But we're all weird humans and we can get caught-up in some pretty strange shit. In fact, it seems like a lot of things in life are pretty weird if you bother to take a step back and observe it from the outside. Sometimes though, I think it's better to lose yourself in the moment and enjoy it. Just be sure to reflect afterward. Sleep, wake. Sleep, wake.

    What's really appalling is the way that it was covered by the media. So busy trying to scoop the competitor, to get the hot-take, to be the first, that they published and broadcasted embarrassing fucking lies. They often didn't even bother to add disclaimers that information hadn't been verified, that something was still being investigated. That's sad. Regardless of how important you think a given person is, to turn their death into THAT? It's shameful. Worse than irresponsible.
  11. Tim's Avatar
    Well done. Congratulations B4B!
  12. escorial's Avatar
    No one loves you when your down and out.....
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