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Babylonkid
November 15th, 2020, 01:38 AM
Hello writers. Ive been stuck on an idea and I keep asking myself why do this? Is there any reason you can think of, to embed something in a new borns mind. Text, information, a phone number. An example would be embedding an important document, or ancient scroll in the babies mind. Whats the purpose? Why do this? What will it serve later in the story? I cant come up with anything. Any ideas?

I greatly appreciate you all.
Alan

Fiender
November 15th, 2020, 06:01 AM
If this is information a newborn could access later in life, it makes perfect sense to embed them with basic good life practices; from super basic stuff like 'don't touch fire' to basic computer or electronic maintenance, or even emergency protocols. Now, these ideas are more of a societal basis and don't really work if you want to make it a plot point that a specific child has something specific embedded in their minds. Unless this child was secretly a test subject for the implementation of a known-from-birth basic knowledge system.

If psychics exist in your world, or even just mind scanning, implanting something vital/secret into a child's mind mind be a good way to keep something hidden. A newborn isn't gonna be able to scream "the password to the safe is 3-32-132" or whatever the info is.

indianroads
November 15th, 2020, 07:28 PM
Crypto-currency marker or chip, communication module (to replace cell phones), locator chips to track movement of citizens.

Babylonkid
November 16th, 2020, 03:48 AM
Thank you so much for the help Fiender. That was a great post. The story takes place in the ancient world. And it is a specific child with something specific embedded in his mind. Its the writings from a fragment of an ancient tablet. This ancient tablet contains knowledge and wisdom from another world. One thought is that this information can give him a jump-start....like an intelligence boost but its roughly the year 1000 BC and I cant think of a way to use this. On one hand I want to scrap the idea, but on the other hand if I can come up with a purpose for it then Id like to keep it.

Babylonkid
November 16th, 2020, 03:50 AM
All great ideas. My story takes place in ancient times. I cant make use of this type of technology.

alpacinoutd
November 16th, 2020, 09:16 PM
In some countries, some religious stuff are read in the ear of a newborn.

People are superstitious and they think the child will grow up to be pious if they do that. If only that were the case.

Babylonkid
November 19th, 2020, 12:22 AM
Yes, I have known of that. Ive been thinking about it for a few days but I just cant come up with anything. My story is in ancient Mesopotamia. They had their gods that they prayed to so that parts good to go. I cant think of the "information" to be put in the kids mind because I dont have a reason to access it. The "info" is there, I have it already....but they embedding thing, I dont have a call back for it.

Zlodesk
November 20th, 2020, 09:31 PM
It could be an inherent ideal of the practices involved with particular gods. Matters of restraint or built in fear to quell future rebellion, a kind of imposed slavery under the gods to prevent discourse and some parts of free will.
Are you wanting the gods to have embedded them? Do you have any ideas on who did it otherwise? Is it genetic?
It could provide a good hurdle if there was sufficient conflict with the way that the gods did things but it was just implanted that it felt normal and everyday despite the horrors of it. It could also be something more basic like specific survival instincts, or tribal separations.
Example. One god implanted a "crop" of children to be faithful to him, while others still took their own, and despite not having much reason to dislike one another, they felt enmity that they could not explain as they grew older.

Just spitballing, hoping something helpful comes of it. I'm not in your head, so I'm not sure where to jump off from, but i'm here if you'd like to discuss it further.

Alternatively, if it's not something meant to affect the baby and rather is more like a piece of information to be regained at a later time, let me know and I'll brainstorm that idea too.

Babylonkid
November 22nd, 2020, 02:56 AM
First off, thanks for helping me. I found your post very helpful. This thought/idea has been kickin my butt. Now let me simplify what I have written in this scene of my story.

Using his magic, a royal priest "Asipu" (Assyrian/Babylonian wizard/magician) embeds a fragment of a larger broken ancient tablet into the mind of a new born who happens to be a demi god. His parents are the king and queen of the Assyrian empire circa 1000BC or so, but who fathered him is an ancient Mesopotamian god. I was thinking Nanna/Sin who is the moon god. Nanna for the Sumerians, and Sin for the Assyrian/Babylonians. Maybe Ashur, or maybe Marduk. I dont know.

You suggested basic survival instincts which got me thinking that maybe Ive been thinking to grand. Maybe it should just be something small. But then again, is anything implanted small? Wouldnt anything be big?

Thanks for taking the time to read and post. You helped open a door I didnt see. Been at this alone for a long time. I hope to hear more from you.

Zlodesk
November 22nd, 2020, 06:04 PM
I had another idea, you actually made me think about a story i was writing a while ago, where a family line had genetic memory, so each first child in the direct line would grow into the memories of thier ancestors, while adding their own. So at age 3, they'd remember having lived through being 3 years old ten or twenty times.

I do agree that anything would be pretty big if implanted into an infant. There's no frame of reference, so any information would feel gargantuan and important.

If it's a fragment, that lends itself to a mystery about what the other pieces are, and what the whole is. That's a useful device to keep interest, as that question will always be in the back of the reader's head. (What is the whole message)

it gives you a lot of freedom and time to figure it out. Eventually, I hope that lightning will strike and you'll feel that buzz of excitement from having figured out the secret, leaving only to parse its pieces and put them in place.

Is the tablet related to the parentage? or is it something disconnected?
I mean like, is it related to the traits of the parent god, like fertility and a prosperous herd of cattle? If so, it could be knowledge of animal husbandry, something not inherant without teaching in most people. Some people like animals, certainly, but inherantly knowing how to breed and take care of them right is a pretty long-learned tradition.

Babylonkid
November 23rd, 2020, 01:40 AM
"they'd remember having lived through being 3 years old ten or twenty times." Thats crazy dude. I love it.

I like the idea of the fragment being a mystery to the whole tablet, but prior to this scene I've already introduced the tablet as a whole before it was broken. We see it as a whole and we see it get broken into fragments. Because its already introduced as 1 whole piece, does that take away any impact to the mystery of the tablet as a whole? It shouldnt right? Because the audience/reader doesnt know what this really is. All they know is its a tablet with other worldly powers.

I should mention that even though the audience knows this tablet by name, and they know it is "something powerful"....they dont really know what it does or where it comes from. I guess, similar to whats inside the Ark of the Covenant. We believe 2 tablets of the Ten Commandments are in there. Legend says whoever is in possession of the Ark becomes mighty and powerful. My tablet is just like that...except its 1 tablet, and its not a set of principles.

My girlfriend and I have a dog. He is fun and amazing and sometimes I look at him and realize I know nothing about dogs.

This has been a tremendous help. Thanks again for your time.

Edit* Forgot to answer your question. The tablet is even more ancient than ancient Mesopotamia. Its cosmic. Its from another planet. Yes, it is related to the parentage... but its related to all the gods and demi gods. For example, its not James Smith and the Smith family. I hope I understood your question.

v_krelig
November 29th, 2020, 04:45 AM
Could it be something like a "Plan B" or instructions for recovering from a disaster?

Babylonkid
November 30th, 2020, 06:08 AM
The "Plan B" idea is intriguing. I like it.
Do you think its a crappy way to say that my hero is powerful because this fragment of information was embedded in his mind and that gave him powers because the tablet as a whole is almighty? Hope that made sense.

Taylor
November 30th, 2020, 06:53 PM
You suggested basic survival instincts which got me thinking that maybe Ive been thinking to grand. Maybe it should just be something small. But then again, is anything implanted small? Wouldnt anything be big?

I love this idea, and it got me thinking of all the things that could be embedded in a newborn that when a future event takes place, it is unlocked and useful. I got thinking about everything that has happened during my lifetime and how I might do things quite differently, if I would know the outcome of all my decisions. Perhaps he has been given the power of seeing the outcome of a decision he is about to make as a King. If you research the period, there likely is an event that triggered a war or the loss of power to a particular people.

v_krelig
December 1st, 2020, 04:56 AM
Let me see if I get this.... the tablet is almighty which makes the character powerful (but not invulnerable). Sounds like a good start.

Babylonkid
December 1st, 2020, 05:27 AM
I love the idea too which is why Im so stuck on it.
I like your idea of seeing the outcome of a decision. Im having trouble because this knowledge from the fragment that is being embedded is 1 piece out of 7. The 7 framents make the 1 tablet which is almighty and cosmic and supreme. So that knowledge/info whatever it may be, from the fragment is useless by itself. Thats where I am stuck. What can I do with this embedded info from 1 fragment. The best idea I came up with is that its power guides him to the other 6 fragments. But then, what is the trigger or incident that turns on this pull that draws him to the other fragments.

Babylonkid
December 1st, 2020, 05:37 AM
Yes, you got it. The hero is a demi god and thats why he is strong/powerful. The tablet is almighty and he who possesses it increases his prowess in everything.

Edit* Or even better. At the end, the bad guy gets all the fragments and he's winning...but with that 1 piece of the tablet embedded in his mind, the hero somehow defeats him.

bdcharles
December 1st, 2020, 09:49 AM
Hello writers. Ive been stuck on an idea and I keep asking myself why do this? Is there any reason you can think of, to embed something in a new borns mind. Text, information, a phone number. An example would be embedding an important document, or ancient scroll in the babies mind. Whats the purpose? Why do this? What will it serve later in the story? I cant come up with anything. Any ideas?

I greatly appreciate you all.
Alan

For commercial gain? To acquire power?

Taylor
December 1st, 2020, 05:47 PM
I love the idea too which is why Im so stuck on it.
I like your idea of seeing the outcome of a decision. Im having trouble because this knowledge from the fragment that is being embedded is 1 piece out of 7. The 7 framents make the 1 tablet which is almighty and cosmic and supreme. So that knowledge/info whatever it may be, from the fragment is useless by itself. Thats where I am stuck. What can I do with this embedded info from 1 fragment. The best idea I came up with is that its power guides him to the other 6 fragments. But then, what is the trigger or incident that turns on this pull that draws him to the other fragments.

Yes, I see your point. Your concept of the tablet is so powerful. I see how it could frame a bigger idea that is your overall theme. But if you were to pick something that is of interest to a wide range of readers, you could really have a huge target market. "Peace" comes to mind. So then conceptualize seven major leadership decisions that if had occured in 1000BC would have created peace in modern time.

What is the trigger though? That would be where you as a writer use your creativity. Because he has no control over the trigger, it could be anything you want really. A certain type of bird that lands on the window sill. A particular snake that slithers through the room. I know for myself whenever the sky is a certain colour, sort of a smoky grey when the sun is trying to break through and just can't, it triggers strong memories for me.

But then I wonder if I am heading into a different direction than you intended with your concept. Have you already defined what the almighty cosmic and supreme is?

Olly Buckle
December 1st, 2020, 06:37 PM
How about an actual invention, something like arches, they turned up about 2000 BC but didn't get used much until the Romans got hold of them at about your period.
Other things that turned up about then were iron smelting, proper ship building, geometry to make right angles. Horses were used to pull vehicles and people started breeding them. The Phonecians started trading for tin in Cornwall to make bronze, but how did they know it was there? Sundials start turning up, and cranks and spoked wheels started turning up about then.

I am thinking stuff which changed the world and could have been introduced by a time traveler or alien to speed things up in a direction that suited them.

Babylonkid
December 4th, 2020, 04:17 AM
Those are both good ideas. Gaining power fits my story more, I dont really have a financial/commercial gain angle. This makes me think of all these movies like Hercules, Conan, Prince Of Persia, ect... they never have money. You never see them purchase anything. Food, water, ect...

Babylonkid
December 4th, 2020, 04:46 AM
"Peace" is a fantastic thought and because my hero is good and his antagonist is evil, the hero will bring peace to the empire after he defeats the villain.
Yes, the almight are the Mesopotamian gods. Mainly Sumerian, Assyrian, and Babylonian. I have 2 factions. Those in favor of humans, and those who are not. But we dont see or hear from the gods for a while. Its mostly the good and bad guys searching for the fragments and throughout this epic journey (Lord Of the Rings style) we get small samples of them gods either in battle or assisting the hero.

When I started writing this story I had in mind a beginning, middle and end. I wrote the opening scene so fast. The birth of the demi god, the location, the enemies that invade, the key characters...but this darn "embedding the fragement" idea has really stopped my progress. Ive been stuck on it for a long time.

Babylonkid
December 4th, 2020, 04:52 AM
I like where you are going with this. But I already have the information which is to be embedded in the new borns mind. My problem is I cant think of a way to use this info in the future because it is 1 piece of a whole ancient tablet. Once all the fragments are put together to create the whole tablet, you will become almighty. But since you only have 1 piece, and you dont even know its in your brain because you were a baby...I dont know how to call back to it in the future. And I dont want to give up on this idea.

Olly Buckle
December 4th, 2020, 09:30 AM
I like where you are going with this. But I already have the information which is to be embedded in the new borns mind. My problem is I cant think of a way to use this info in the future because it is 1 piece of a whole ancient tablet. Once all the fragments are put together to create the whole tablet, you will become almighty. But since you only have 1 piece, and you dont even know its in your brain because you were a baby...I dont know how to call back to it in the future. And I dont want to give up on this idea.

Now that is clear I see it as finding a way to bring the other fragments together in his presence as though by chance. Then when he sees them his mind throws up the missing piece which has been lying dormant waiting for that moment.

Taylor
December 12th, 2020, 09:42 PM
"Peace" is a fantastic thought and because my hero is good and his antagonist is evil, the hero will bring peace to the empire after he defeats the villain.
Yes, the almight are the Mesopotamian gods. Mainly Sumerian, Assyrian, and Babylonian. I have 2 factions. Those in favor of humans, and those who are not. But we dont see or hear from the gods for a while. Its mostly the good and bad guys searching for the fragments and throughout this epic journey (Lord Of the Rings style) we get small samples of them gods either in battle or assisting the hero.

When I started writing this story I had in mind a beginning, middle and end. I wrote the opening scene so fast. The birth of the demi god, the location, the enemies that invade, the key characters...but this darn "embedding the fragement" idea has really stopped my progress. Ive been stuck on it for a long time.

It is an interesting idea, and obviously fascinates you, so it would be an important aspect of your voice as a writer, so I would keep looking for a solution. I think the answer will come to you. Remember good things are not always easy! Have you made any progress?

Babylonkid
December 29th, 2020, 10:04 PM
Alternatively, if it's not something meant to affect the baby and rather is more like a piece of information to be regained at a later time, let me know and I'll brainstorm that idea too.


Hello again. I was just wondering if you had some time to give this another thought.
This info embedded in the childs mind is 1 fragment of an ancient tablet. Whoever has the tablet will rule. So the bad guy finally finds the baby, but its been 25 years. Im happy to answer any questions that might give you ideas to help me.

Thank you!

MistWolf
December 30th, 2020, 10:12 PM
Hell's Bells! What couldn't I do with a character like this!

Obviously, the tablet grants or is the key to unlocking great power, something so devastating that some hero/greater power sacrificed everything after a long, grueling quest to keep from falling into the hands of the Dark One.

The tablet was broken into seven pieces and each given to one of seven trusted guardians and scattered throughout the world/cosmos (depending on the scale the story takes place). Each guardian has a lifespan of many millennia. This should give everyone time to find The Ultimate Solution. Alas, this is not to be as the Dark One proves to be an ever tenacious and implacable foe. Before they die, each guardian must find and train a new guardian to take their place to keep the pieces safe from falling into the Dark One's clutches.

One guardian found themself on a quiet backwater planet, far from the intrigues of cosmic beings. The guardian is dying. The journey to this planet was long and exhausting. After years of searching, the only suitable apprentice would be the future offspring of the king and queen of Babylon. The guardian becomes court magician. However, the guardian has less time than thought and before dying, must transfer the fragment to the unborn babe, no time time for training or to perform the proper rituals protecting the fragment from detection during transfer from old guardian to new.

Thankfully, the time of transfer is brief. The old guardian is confident it's too brief to catch the attention of the Dark One or his minions.

Unfortunately, at least one current guardian is a minion of the Dark One...

All guardians are trained to access the knowledge of the tablet. However, that knowledge is limited to the knowledge of each fragment. As the babe has never received training, it's access to the knowledge is uncontrolled and- well, fragmented. The unwitting guardian is unaware of the flashes of insight they sometimes receive until another guardian confronts them. But is this a True Guardian? Or a Black Guardian, a minion of the Dark One that, through subterfuge, gained guardianship of a fragment?

Babylonkid
December 31st, 2020, 12:13 AM
That was great. Had a happy smile reading your post. So helpful.

I want to tell you more. Your idea of the guardians is excellent. These royal priests, warriors and wizards, are called the Sacred Seven. 2 of the 7 are the kings advisors. I wrote them as protectors of the kingdom/empire, but your idea as guardians of the tablet is much better. Id like to use your idea and have them be both. Tablet and kingdom protectors. The story takes place on earth, in ancient Mesopotamia mostly and we do not go off planet even though the Tablet came from the cosmos. To sum up the beginning, during the birth of the prophesized demi-god, a small group of soldiers invade for 2 reasons. First, to kill the baby. I dont have a strong grasp on how prophesies work in these fantasy stories. But the evil god foretells everything. Second, to cause a distraction so the trader, or as you nicely put it, the minion of the Dark One, can steal the tablet. The Tablet has been locked away in a secret chamber somewhere in the TOB by the great god Marduk. Our hero god. His uncle Enlil is the villain god. We dont see them much. The birth takes place in the main chamber of the Tower Of Babel. Im a little stuck here because if it is a prophecy type thing then shouldnt everyone know about it? How much should everyone know? What should everyone know? What I have so far is after the king is alerted of the invasion, he tells his Sacred Seven they must get the Tablet, break it apart in to 7 fragments, and scatter it. 5 of the 7 priests have instructions handed to them by king Marduk on where to go and hide their fragment. So they go on their quest, not to be seen for 25 years. The 2 main priests, the advisors, stay behind. One of them happens to be the Dark One's minion. The other priest saves the baby during the battle. But I dont have a good reason for them to stay behind except the evil minion kills the king during this battle and crowns himself king. But why does the king ask these 2 to stay? And does the good priest see the evil one kill the king? So much. And the whole embedding the fragment in the babies mind. My plan was that during the battle the good priest would embed his fragment in to the babies mind. Immediately after he is attacked and he loses his fragment which is picked up by the evil minion trader and now the evil one has 2 fragments out of the 7. Oh man. And how does he learn of the location of the remaining 5. The baby is now 25 years old...and something is drawing him to the location of the remaining fragments. But what? Is it the fragment in his mind? If so, how come the now evil king who has 2 fragments...or better yet his all powerful god Enlil know the location of the fragments. Dang!

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and more thanks for helping me. To everyone chiming in, thank you so much.

MistWolf
December 31st, 2020, 09:03 AM
Feel free to use any ideas I give you for this story. The story doesn't have to have a prophecy.

Your version is good but puts a lot on your plate. Take a look and see what you can do to streamline it. Take it apart and lay a simple but solid foundation then build on that bit by bit. This has the potential for being at least a trilogy.

Babylonkid
January 1st, 2021, 10:23 PM
You read my mind. A trilogy is what I inteded. Thank you so much.

Edit* What are your thoughts on the betrayer, the Dark Ones minion being the kings brother? I wanted to make the king a demi god too, but if theyre brothers then theyre both gods and the new born is also a demi god. Too many, maybe.

MistWolf
January 3rd, 2021, 03:58 AM
You read my mind. A trilogy is what I inteded. Thank you so much.

Edit* What are your thoughts on the betrayer, the Dark Ones minion being the kings brother? I wanted to make the king a demi god too, but if theyre brothers then theyre both gods and the new born is also a demi god. Too many, maybe.
I wouldn't make the king a demi-god, nor would I make the traitor guardian his brother or the court magician, but it's not my story.

If you do make the king a demi-god, you'll need to kill him before his son comes of age.

Babylonkid
January 4th, 2021, 05:48 AM
In the version I wrote I had the queen impregnated by one of the gods so the king is a mortal man. I can change the god but I went with the moon god Sin. The traitor guardian is not the kings brother.
On your point about a court magician... I did have all 7 guardians be at some level of magic. For example, the good guardian embeds his fragment in to the babies mind. And I want the good and bad guardians to be equal strength. The other 5 could be less.

Whether the king is or is not a demi-god, he is double crossed and killed by the evil guardian. His name is Aprim by the way which means "two faced". Sorry I hadn't mentioned this part before.

I struggled so long because I wanted the story to be accurate with the dates, places and peoples names. But then I thought, Im writing a fake story. Im not writing a history book. So its okay that somethings are not 100% accurate. A great example is my opening scene at the Tower of Babel where the baby is born. The big battle takes place inside, after the baby is born. The bad guardian kills the king and crowns himself. The good guardian saves the baby and takes him to the Lighthouse at Alexandria. Then Id think about if they both existed at the same time. The Lighthouse is ancient history but the Tower is much older if it even existed at all. Do all my places exist at the same time? If I go 1000BC Ill have the Tower that should exist (fact), the kings name is Ashurnasirpal II (fact), but I dont know his real name because when I reasearch the ancient kings we dont have records of their real names. They often changed it and usually its 2 or 3 parts. For example my king is Assur (the main god of the Assyrians) and Nasir-Apli (is guardian of their heir) which we translate to Ashurnasirpal. We know king Ashurnasirpal did not have a demi-god son, nor was he killed on the birth night of his son.

Thanks again for your time and help.

Olly Buckle
January 4th, 2021, 10:23 AM
If it is fiction you can mess with the history as you like, my problem is that I read Aprim as Asprin.

Babylonkid
January 5th, 2021, 04:54 AM
They do look the same. They even sound the same. Dang.

Olly Buckle
January 5th, 2021, 03:46 PM
Don't worry, it is probably only my strange mind. After all you had not noticed it until I infected you with the thought.

MistWolf
January 5th, 2021, 09:16 PM
Don't worry, it is probably only my strange mind. After all you had not noticed it until I infected you with the thought.

No, it's my strange mind too.

Babylonkid
January 7th, 2021, 04:33 AM
What's in a name right? Everyone has been so helpful. I appreciate your time.

Babylonkid
January 7th, 2021, 06:00 AM
Thank you. And sorry for missing your question. Still learning how to navigate this site. Yes, I have mad progress with everyones help. But I have also been confused and not satisfied with some of my ideas. Can you think of any story or movie that has a triggered call back type thing like I'm trying to do?

Babylonkid
February 10th, 2021, 12:05 AM
"Peace" comes to mind. So then conceptualize seven major leadership decisions that if had occured in 1000BC would have created peace in modern time.

What is the trigger though? That would be where you as a writer use your creativity. Because he has no control over the trigger, it could be anything you want really. A certain type of bird that lands on the window sill. A particular snake that slithers through the room. I know for myself whenever the sky is a certain colour, sort of a smoky grey when the sun is trying to break through and just can't, it triggers strong memories for me.

But then I wonder if I am heading into a different direction than you intended with your concept. Have you already defined what the almighty cosmic and supreme is?
Thank you for helping, and I am sorry I missed replying. I tend to miss a lot.
You are not heading into a different direction. Yes, I have my almighty gods. They are an ancient race from another world.

I think I have my solution. Using the same "magic" that embedded the fragment, the "good" Asipu will trigger the young mans mind to uncover the fragment of the tablet. Now I have to figure out how we're going to see this fragment. If he closes his eyes type of thing, he will see it. Or is it a holograph that we can all see?

Babylonkid
February 10th, 2021, 01:00 AM
I re-read your post and like your ideas very much.