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Ken11
June 26th, 2018, 01:42 PM
Any experience with creating a (clichéd) romance plot? Thanks in advance.

Darkkin
June 26th, 2018, 01:47 PM
Easy fix, read a romance novel of the genre you want to cliche. e.g. Historical, Regency, Harlequin, Contemporary, Romantic Suspence, Inspirational, and Paranormal, just to name a few...I hesitate to include erotica because that has an entire subset of standards. This is a highly defined, long established breed standard genre. Read the books and the recipe becomes clear. Basic research and development. Read the genre to know the genre. Maybe put a little more thought into the specifics of the question, rather than a vague concept. It is like asking for a book and knowing only that it might have a blue cover.

You want cliched, a more concise term would by archetypial story arc, individual meets individual, angst and various drama ensues, happy ending not always included.

Bayview
June 26th, 2018, 05:23 PM
I've written over thirty novels, most of them romance... but I certainly try to avoid cliches. Are you thinking of tropes, or...? Why would you want to deliberately write something cliched?

Ken11
June 26th, 2018, 09:42 PM
Deleted post

Ken11
June 26th, 2018, 09:43 PM
I've written over thirty novels, most of them romance... but I certainly try to avoid cliches. Are you thinking of tropes, or...? Why would you want to deliberately write something cliched?

I suppose I am thinking of tropes. Is using tropes effective in writing romance? Does it pay off? (My rough draft romance story 'A Whirlepool' is found in the Prose writers workshop).

Bayview
June 26th, 2018, 10:18 PM
I suppose I am thinking of tropes. Is using tropes effective in writing romance? Does it pay off? (My rough draft romance story 'A Whirlepool' is found in the Prose writers workshop).

Pay off like making things easier to sell? Probably. There are absolutely romances that are breaking new ground and being totally creative, but a lot of readers seem to be looking for the tropier-stories. I have a new release (out TODAY!!!) that uses the Second Chance Romance trope - former lovers who are reunited and try to make it work this time. To some extent I think the tropiness of romance may be because it's such a huge genre and there's so much being written. And there are only so many ways for people to meet and fall in love! So patterns can definitely be seen...

EmmaSohan
June 27th, 2018, 12:08 AM
I am not sure what you are asking. Typically . . .

Take her viewpoint (or both), because your readers presumably will be mostly female.

If it's a book about him and her falling in love. your final climactic scene is them both become aware that they love each other. Meanwhile, he has to appear in the story early. So that leaves a lot of space to fill up in between. Things go slowly, there are setbacks, and obstacle occur regularly.

For fantasy purposes, he has to be attractive. To take a random book, the male lead in The Fault in Our Stars is described as hot, even though the book probably would be better without it.

That includes socially attractive. So rich and famous is tops, but financially independent is probably necessary. He has to be nice and caring and he would make a good father.

There has to be something to keep them interacting. This could be his like for her, or some project they are working on together.

These aren't really cliches, they're things about structure that the reader probably wants. Being creative usually means finding new ways to do these, or being creative about something else.

MikeCobley
June 27th, 2018, 07:32 AM
I have always struggled with romance in my novels. The idea's i have seem amazing in my head, able to visual clearly, as soon as i transfer to paper, it's all lost in translation. And always cringe-worthy!

Rgds

Ken11
June 27th, 2018, 08:24 AM
I am not sure what you are asking. Typically . . .

Take her viewpoint (or both), because your readers presumably will be mostly female.

If it's a book about him and her falling in love. your final climactic scene is them both become aware that they love each other. Meanwhile, he has to appear in the story early. So that leaves a lot of space to fill up in between. Things go slowly, there are setbacks, and obstacle occur regularly.

For fantasy purposes, he has to be attractive. To take a random book, the male lead in The Fault in Our Stars is described as hot, even though the book probably would be better without it.

That includes socially attractive. So rich and famous is tops, but financially independent is probably necessary. He has to be nice and caring and he would make a good father.

There has to be something to keep them interacting. This could be his like for her, or some project they are working on together.

These aren't really cliches, they're things about structure that the reader probably wants. Being creative usually means finding new ways to do these, or being creative about something else.

How about beginning a romance story in medias res?

Would it be wise to use intellectualism in romance story? Is there public for such stories?

Bayview
June 27th, 2018, 11:30 AM
How about beginning a romance story in medias res?

Would it be wise to use intellectualism in romance story? Is there public for such stories?

In media res is fine as long as it's not the middle of the ROMANCE. It's fine to start in the middle of some action and carry on from there, but you shouldn't start in the middle of the RELATIONSHIP, generally.

And I think of "intellectualism" as being placing primacy on the brain rather than the heart - intellect over emotion. Since the main theme of your story should be an emotion, no, I don't think there's a place for intellectualism. But it occurs to me that you may be using the word in a different way - do you just mean intelligence? If so, obviously, yes, it's fine to use intelligence.

Ken11
June 27th, 2018, 11:57 AM
In media res is fine as long as it's not the middle of the ROMANCE. It's fine to start in the middle of some action and carry on from there, but you shouldn't start in the middle of the RELATIONSHIP, generally.

And I think of "intellectualism" as being placing primacy on the brain rather than the heart - intellect over emotion. Since the main theme of your story should be an emotion, no, I don't think there's a place for intellectualism. But it occurs to me that you may be using the word in a different way - do you just mean intelligence? If so, obviously, yes, it's fine to use intelligence.

If you have read my piece here on WF, you must have found that I tend to write down some non-romantic ideas. So, my intellectualism would mean using such ideas.

Bayview
June 27th, 2018, 01:51 PM
If you have read my piece here on WF, you must have found that I tend to write down some non-romantic ideas. So, my intellectualism would mean using such ideas.

Are you trying to write genre romance, or just stories that have a romantic element?

And I took a quick look at your short story, but the SPAG issues were too much for me - I'm a pretty picky reader. I'd say it might be best to worry about getting things correct and clear in a simpler format first, and then worry about genre expectations and non-romantic ideas.

Ken11
June 27th, 2018, 02:22 PM
Are you trying to write genre romance, or just stories that have a romantic element?

And I took a quick look at your short story, but the SPAG issues were too much for me - I'm a pretty picky reader. I'd say it might be best to worry about getting things correct and clear in a simpler format first, and then worry about genre expectations and non-romantic ideas.

I must admit that I'm still not sure what genre romance is, so I'll stick to just writing, i.e. making sure my SPAG and format improve, and wait for bigger waves of inspiration...

Thanks for your assistance.

Jack of all trades
June 27th, 2018, 05:52 PM
I must admit that I'm still not sure what genre romance is, so I'll stick to just writing, i.e. making sure my SPAG and format improve, and wait for bigger waves of inspiration...

Thanks for your assistance.

This is not my usual genre, but I'll take a stab at it.

I think romance is typically person A meets person B (how is one of the variables). They are attracted to each other, usually, but don't admit it right away. Then, just to make things interesting, there's a point at which one or both suspect the other of something that's a deal-breaker for having a relationship. Then, to get to the "they all live happily ever after" ending, the truth is revealed and both confess to loving the other. Look at romance novels or romantic movies for more of an idea of the typical formula.

Bayview
June 28th, 2018, 10:41 AM
I must admit that I'm still not sure what genre romance is, so I'll stick to just writing, i.e. making sure my SPAG and format improve, and wait for bigger waves of inspiration...

Thanks for your assistance.

If you're actually interested in genre romance, read some genre romances. I can recommend authors if you want.

Ken11
June 30th, 2018, 12:46 PM
If you're actually interested in genre romance, read some genre romances. I can recommend authors if you want.

Please do.

Bayview
June 30th, 2018, 01:13 PM
Please do.

Some of my favourite genre romance authors are Courtney Milan, Ruby McNally, and Meredith Duran. If you're ready for m/m romance (two men) I'd strongly recommend Alexis Hall or KJ Charles or Joanna Chambers - I think they may be closer to what you're trying to do with your writing.

But those are all modern, genre romance writers, and I'm not sure you actually want to write genre romance. Have you read Jane Austen? You might want to give her a try. Alternatively... and stick with me, here... I wonder if you'd be happier with YA writing, maybe Maggie Stiefvater or one of the other more "stylized" YA writers? Most genre romance writers focus on the characterization, but I sense you're trying to focus on the language, maybe? And outside of literary fiction, I think YA is where you'll find the most creative use of language. (Often the creativity doesn't work, at least for me, but YA readers seem to be more open to experiments). And there are certainly YA romances out there!

Ken11
June 30th, 2018, 01:55 PM
Some of my favourite genre romance authors are Courtney Milan, Ruby McNally, and Meredith Duran. If you're ready for m/m romance (two men) I'd strongly recommend Alexis Hall or KJ Charles or Joanna Chambers - I think they may be closer to what you're trying to do with your writing.

But those are all modern, genre romance writers, and I'm not sure you actually want to write genre romance. Have you read Jane Austen? You might want to give her a try. Alternatively... and stick with me, here... I wonder if you'd be happier with YA writing, maybe Maggie Stiefvater or one of the other more "stylized" YA writers? Most genre romance writers focus on the characterization, but I sense you're trying to focus on the language, maybe? And outside of literary fiction, I think YA is where you'll find the most creative use of language. (Often the creativity doesn't work, at least for me, but YA readers seem to be more open to experiments). And there are certainly YA romances out there!

You're right, I'd like to put the use of language in the center of my writing.

Does YA stand for young adult?

Bayview
June 30th, 2018, 02:41 PM
Yes, YA is young adult.