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urbandekay
August 24th, 2017, 08:17 AM
Poems have virtues; grammar, imagery, cadence, message, etc. and all our human endeavors involve compromise. In poetry, we often have to compromise one virtue for another, which then do you hold dear, which is the very meat and juice of the poem that must take precedence?

CrimsonAngel223
August 24th, 2017, 07:09 PM
I'd take grammar because no one would understand your work without that.

urbandekay
August 24th, 2017, 09:33 PM
Really, seems of lesser importance to me but each to their own

TL Murphy
August 25th, 2017, 06:08 AM
Image! Images form metaphorical associations. Connect the images contextually using poetic device. Rhyme is only one poetic device and it's not worth sacrificing others just to get rhymes.

urbandekay
August 25th, 2017, 08:22 AM
Yes, imagery is very important, though not of prime importance to me

Darren White
August 26th, 2017, 10:09 AM
Imagery for me, I think in images (and color). Cadence second, I used to be a dancer, it's ingrained. For me the message will work if I manage to get my imagery done decently.

urbandekay
August 26th, 2017, 11:10 AM
Well, having thought about this for a few minutes, I think that which the author is attempting to convey is of prime importance and second to that the rhythm and imagery.

PiP
August 26th, 2017, 12:06 PM
Poems have virtues; grammar, imagery, cadence, message, etc. and all our human endeavors involve compromise. In poetry, we often have to compromise one virtue for another, which then do you hold dear, which is the very meat and juice of the poem that must take precedence?

With poetry it's imagery. Prose, my first choice would be grammar. Yes, of course the poem has to make sense but I believe poets have far more of a creative license than prose writers.

Besides, not all poetry has conventional punctuation or gammar so how can we assign grammar as the #1 priority? Readers will add their own interpretation ...

Darkkin
August 26th, 2017, 01:40 PM
Poems have virtues; grammar, imagery, cadence, message, etc. and all our human endeavors involve compromise. In poetry, we often have to compromise one virtue for another, which then do you hold dear, which is the very meat and juice of the poem that must take precedence?

I have three Celtic knots inked on my spine, each done when I achieved a milestone with my writing. Those knots, the ink is a reminder: All things in balance because what happens to one element will affect the others. It is a fundamental of my poetry, my prose...Imagery draws the reader in, flow seduces the senses, cadence becomes the pulse, grammar the linear structure of language, and message is the purpose, justification of the piece's being. From metaphor to empathy and escape. I write to escape, I read to learn. No one is greater than the others. Theory without practice has different effects than practice without theory. Different values, different struggles. Yes, intangible value is arbitrary, but there are reasons everyone struggles with something and excels at another. It is how we learn. Marcus Aurelius's observation of principles: 'Of each particular thing, ask: What is it in itself? What is its nature?'

Know the element, its nature amd one begins to understand. It is why writing is a process. Systemic, fluid, ocassionaly redundant, and on going.

- D.

Kevin
August 26th, 2017, 02:02 PM
Truth- if the poem is not true to the intention it is compromised. You know it is a sham..

PiP
August 26th, 2017, 02:39 PM
Truth- if the poem is not true to the intention it is compromised. You know it is a sham..

Do we as poets need to experience an emotion to write about it effectively?

Kevin
August 26th, 2017, 03:00 PM
[QUOTE=PiP;2102791]Do we as poets need to experience an emotion to write about it effectively?[/QUOTE something about 'it' ( whatever it is) must strike you. I guess that could be emotion, or emotions

aj47
August 26th, 2017, 03:16 PM
Poets do not have to experience a specific Thing to write legitimately about it. How can a poet experience dying or being a tree or what-not? However, if the poet doesn't understand the issue at hand, then the poem will not have a sense of correctness or truth to it. That would be a sham. Misusing vocabulary can cause this shamminess. And that is often caused by almost-but-not-quite understanding the subject.

urbandekay
August 26th, 2017, 03:52 PM
Truth- if the poem is not true to the intention it is compromised. You know it is a sham..

By truth' here you mean authenticity?

urbandekay
August 26th, 2017, 03:56 PM
Poets do not have to experience a specific Thing to write legitimately about it. How can a poet experience dying or being a tree or what-not? However, if the poet doesn't understand the issue at hand, then the poem will not have a sense of correctness or truth to it. That would be a sham. Misusing vocabulary can cause this shamminess. And that is often caused by almost-but-not-quite understanding the subject.

Hmmm, not so sure, how could you write about an emotion never having experienced it, does Mary the colour blind neuro-biologist specializing in colour sight, truly understand colour, though she has learnt everything learnable about it?

Kevin
August 26th, 2017, 03:57 PM
Poets do not have to experience a specific Thing to write legitimately about it. How can a poet experience dying or being a tree or what-not? However, if the poet doesn't understand the issue at hand, then the poem will not have a sense of correctness or truth to it. That would be a sham. Misusing vocabulary can cause this shamminess. And that is often caused by almost-but-not-quite understanding the subject.if I write a beauty ty about fears of floating off the edge of the earth as I believe it to be flat I am being truthful. Whether it is precisely factual or not is beside the point.

Kevin
August 26th, 2017, 04:31 PM
Urban-yes. Authentic to your intention.

urbandekay
August 26th, 2017, 07:15 PM
Urban-yes. Authentic to your intention.

In that case, I'm inclined to agree