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darvex
July 12th, 2011, 09:40 PM
Hello,

Here's my problem. I'm an old guy and I can't get out of the habit of leaving 2 spaces at the end of sentences.

I'm using Word 2003. Is there some setting that I could use to reformat an already written pieces so only one space would be between sentences?

Thank you for your time saving help.

Sam
July 12th, 2011, 10:32 PM
Who told you to get out of the habit of leaving two spaces at the end of sentences? I thought that was industry-standard. I do it all the time, and I'm in my late twenties.

Unfortunately, I don't think Word is tailored for such a thing. It can find and replace words for you, but that's about the extent of its abilities. Someone may prove me wrong on that score.

Offeiriad
July 12th, 2011, 11:04 PM
Both of you need to get out of the habit and quick. :tongue: I used to do it, but I managed to get out of the habit. I found an amusing article about it and it includes a bit about why people deemed it necessary in the first place. Both the MLA Style Book and the Chicago Manual of Style indicate you shouldn't use two spaces.

Why You Should Never, Ever Use Two Spaces Between Sentences (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/01/why-you-should-never-ever-use-two-spaces-between-sentences/69579/)

Of course there's also the amusing rebuttal for that article here:

You Can Have My Double Space When You Pry It From My Cold, Dead Hands (http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/01/you-can-have-my-double-space-when-you-pry-it-from-my-cold-dead-hands/69592/)


Oh, and just for SnG, why not open your Find/Replace option on your document and press your space bar twice in the 'find' field and once in the 'replace' field. I'm pretty sure that will work.

Baron
July 12th, 2011, 11:17 PM
This is another lazy Americanism. Anyone who has learnt to type properly in the UK has always been taught to double space after a full stop.

I wonder how long it will be before someone is trying to convince us that novels need to be written in text speech?

DanCol
July 13th, 2011, 12:22 AM
@Baron srsly, i no rite?

ScientistAsHero
July 13th, 2011, 12:26 AM
I don't think it's particularly "American" to not put two spaces after a full stop nor would I say it's due to laziness. In the past, when typewriters were the norm it made sense to teach putting a double-space after a full stop because the characters were all monospaced, but computer word processors have been around for a long time now and have consequently caused the double-space to become somewhat redundant.

elite
July 13th, 2011, 12:37 AM
This is another lazy Americanism. Anyone who has learnt to type properly in the UK has always been taught to double space after a full stop.

It's not lazy Americanism, double spaces were a compensation for typewriters which had mono-spaced typing. Now that letters are proportionally spaced, there is no need for another space. Same thing as caps lock: the remains of dead technology.


I wonder how long it will be before someone is trying to convince us that novels need to be written in text speech?

The thought of narrating hundreds of thousands of words makes me want to quit writing if this ever happens.

Rustgold
July 13th, 2011, 05:03 AM
You Can Have My Double Space When You Pry It From My Cold, Dead Hands (http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/01/you-can-have-my-double-space-when-you-pry-it-from-my-cold-dead-hands/69592/)
I didn't even know that there was any fight over it. Two spaces are important because it's easier to see that there's actually a new sentence; otherwise why not just have commas for everything. It's simply a struggle to see different sentences in a block of writing when they're one spaced. One spaced promoters clearly mustn't read much.

ScientistAsHero
July 13th, 2011, 05:11 AM
I didn't even know that there was any fight over it. Two spaces are important because it's easier to see that there's actually a new sentence; otherwise why not just have commas for everything. it's simply a struggle to see different sentences in a block of writing when they're one spaced. One spaced promoters clearly don't read much.

Differentiating between sentences and words is what proportionally-spaced fonts are for. I didn't know there was a disagreement over the issue, either... but I thought it was the double-space after the period that was pretty much dead.

theorphan
July 13th, 2011, 05:59 AM
I agree, I have always heard double space after periods and do it. I will pretty much continue to do it because I feel it gives the end and beginning of a sentence a better look.

Offeiriad
July 13th, 2011, 03:26 PM
In the end I don't think it matters how you do it, in the end it only matters how the publisher does it.

C.M. Aaron
July 13th, 2011, 05:04 PM
To instantly change all of your double spaces to single spaces, use the find and replace tool. Find "[double space bar]" and then Replace with "[single space bar]" I have made 10,000 corrections instantaneously that way.

elite
July 13th, 2011, 05:13 PM
To all of the people promoting double spaces after sentences... All of your posts have one space per sentence :D

Baron
July 13th, 2011, 05:19 PM
To all of the people promoting double spaces after sentences... All of your posts have one space per sentence :D

That only applies if you use justified text.

Sam
July 13th, 2011, 05:20 PM
That's because the forum doesn't allow anything else. I still double space. ;)

Rustgold
July 14th, 2011, 02:43 AM
To all of the people promoting double spaces after sentences... All of your posts have one space per sentence :D
I'm aware of that, and it makes things more difficult to read correctly.

Offeiriad
July 14th, 2011, 03:46 AM
Seriously? You can't read things unless they're spaced far apart?

elite
July 14th, 2011, 04:07 AM
I'm aware of that, and it makes things more difficult to read correctly.

You must be having trouble reading 99% of the internet then.

Offeiriad
July 14th, 2011, 04:11 AM
I agree elite.

ankles
July 14th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Don't sweat it. Just be consistent. It's an easy thing to change if the publisher wants it changed. No biggie. :)

darvex
July 15th, 2011, 12:11 AM
Dear C.M. Aaron,

Thank you so much for revealing the way to remove my erroneous end of sentence spaces. I did as you said and Shazam, all the unwanted spaces went into cyberspace never to be seen again (using the Replace function in Word 2003). I have another full length novel that I started in the 90s that has the same problem. You are saving me tons of time.

Offeiriad
July 15th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Dear C.M. Aaron,

Thank you so much for revealing the way to remove my erroneous end of sentence spaces. I did as you said and Shazam, all the unwanted spaces went into cyberspace never to be seen again (using the Replace function in Word 2003). I have another full length novel that I started in the 90s that has the same problem. You are saving me tons of time.

I guess you missed my suggestion of the exact same thing a few posts before.....

darvex
July 15th, 2011, 08:17 PM
I'm sorry, Offeiriad (http://www.writingforums.com/members/offeiriad.html) for not mentioning that you also had the solution. Please pardon my oversight.

Lord Darkstorm
July 29th, 2011, 04:12 AM
Just curious, but if the word processor is changing the spacing after the period, would it not stand to reason it can properly adjust for two spaces as well as one? And what do you do with the places that still want submissions in a mono-spaced font? It's easy to remove the extra spaces...but more difficult to put them back afterward. Finding a single space and replacing with a double space wouldn't work.

I don't see why anyone would get bent out of shape over it. I'll just keep adding two and not worry about it.

BobbyKing
July 29th, 2011, 04:45 AM
Double spaces after a full stop... it's fine... (and I am not that young either...8))

j.w.olson
July 29th, 2011, 05:55 AM
Just a note -- if you want to go the other way and add two spaces in (because you cling to defunct traditions?) you can do a find and replace search just as easily. Search for "[period][space]" and replace it with "[period][space][space]" and all will be as you want it. Well, except that you'll have to go through and do the same search again with question marks, exclamation marks, and periods followed by endquotes. And I think that's all.

Bloggsworth
July 29th, 2011, 09:00 AM
I am firmly with the two space brigade. It makes a piece much easier to read.

I am firmly with the one space brigade. It makes a piece much easier to read.

Come to think of it, I only use one space, the books I read have only use one...

j.w.olson
July 29th, 2011, 04:32 PM
I was taught to use two spaces in High School. I loved using two spaces and that I always encouraged other people to.

But then I got a degree in english (literature and stuff) at UW Wiscosnin and it was hammered out of me. And I got a degree in English Education and it was hammered out of me. Along the way I took a lot of creative writing courses and it was hammered out of me. And then the internet and html don't generally allow more than one space in a row and it was hammered out of me.

So now using two spaces feels like a defunct tradition only used by those who don't know the trend or those grumpy individuals who want to feel elitist and don't like the ground changing under their feet. Then again, that second option sounds like most writers I know. But who knows -- I may be living in my own corner of the world.

Lord Darkstorm
July 29th, 2011, 04:52 PM
My work involves a good bit of writing code, and there are far more arguments (heated and otherwise) over things like capitalization and whether a commas separating list values should be on the same line, one per line, with the comma at the end of the item or at the front of the item...and so on and so forth.

In code, there is a great significance to formatting, syntax highlighting, and how things are labeled. When I look at code that is formatted to the way I'm used to seeing it, it is easy to find the parts I am looking for. When not, it looks like a jumbled mess that drives me insane.

While some people might not notice the additional space, some of us do. I write in courier new mono spaced font. It's but ugly on the screen, but there are still a number of publishers that require printed manuscripts be submitted, and they want a mono spaced font. I don't remember any specifying the number of spaces after a sentence, but I do know that most want double space between lines.

After all this, it comes back to the most important question of all...why does anyone actually care if I use one space or two? Or anyone else for that matter?

Steve
July 29th, 2011, 05:22 PM
two sugars for me.

darvex
August 25th, 2011, 02:51 PM
That was the answer. Thank you, C.M. Aaron, for your advice on using the find and replace tool in Word. I changed my double space after the sentences to single space in one fell swoop. Thanks again, C.M.

Next Time We Steal The Carillon
A cozy mystery by Louie Flann

BabaYaga
August 25th, 2011, 03:02 PM
This is the first time I have ever heard of the 'double space' ever. In my high school we had exactly 5 computers that were kept in a locked room and only available to the top students- and since I was too busy smoking in the toilets to be one of those, I taught myself to type after school and I still think I'm one of the fastest 2-finger typists in the world. Now that I have discovered this new technique I will try to use it all the time from now on. Not because I think it will make my professional writing any easier to read but because I know it will drive my boss friggin nuts! Thanks guys :)

JosephB
August 25th, 2011, 03:06 PM
It's either "lazy" or more efficient -- depending on how you look at it. In most typeset applications -- it's a single space. It's just a leftover from the days of typewriters with monospaced typefaces -- the extra space made it more readable. So I'd say it's pretty much a useless anachronism these days.

starseed
September 15th, 2011, 06:57 PM
I'm a little bitter that something that was DRILLED into me in school is apparently "wrong". American here. Was told it was quite important to leave two spaces after a sentence, and will continue doing so until the day I die. I don't do it on forums but I do it in my work.

patskywriter
September 15th, 2011, 07:42 PM
I'm a little bitter that something that was DRILLED into me in school is apparently "wrong". American here. Was told it was quite important to leave two spaces after a sentence, and will continue doing so until the day I die. I don't do it on forums but I do it in my work.

Bitter? The world changes, starseed—it's not such a big deal that you have to become embittered. Back when I was a kid (1960s), the word "president" was capitalized at all times. Now it's only capitalized when used as a title (with the person's name).

When my parents were kids (1930s), words like "tonight" and "today" were hyphenated (to-night, to-day); "cooperate" had an umlaut and at one time was also hyphenated (co-öperate, coöperate). Languages and the ways to express them on paper change constantly—otherwise, they'd die. Please don't take it personally as the English language evolves. I'll bet that speakers/writers of other languages would agree that they, too, have noticed changes through the years. :peaceful:


Does anyone here remember the days when the words "Mary," "merry," and "marry" were pronounced differently? My guess is that all three words now have the same, identical pronunciation. I also remember the teachers instructing us to pronounce the "h" in "white." They were very proper and old-school. Now, even the teachers say "wite." That would have been considered gauche many years ago.

Robdemanc
November 8th, 2011, 09:04 PM
I have always used double space after sentences. My thumb is getting old now and will not learn new tricks. But I suppose the publisher will have the final say (if I ever get one).

BTW - this sight appears to remove the double space when you post a response.

Notquitexena
November 15th, 2011, 01:11 AM
I actually prefer the look of two spaces at the end but I am told I am also an old fogey. The simplest way would be to do Ctrl-H and put ". " in the find section and ". " in the replace section of the popup window.

Elowan
January 12th, 2012, 01:25 AM
I didn't even know that there was any fight over it. Two spaces are important because it's easier to see that there's actually a new sentence; otherwise why not just have commas for everything. It's simply a struggle to see different sentences in a block of writing when they're one spaced. One spaced promoters clearly mustn't read much.

I agree wholeheartedly here. It makes sense to do so especially when text is placed into columns (as in my textbook).

Kyle R
January 12th, 2012, 02:29 AM
I REMEMBER learning the two-spaces-after-a-period rule in my keyboarding class, in the late 1990's.. This is the first time I've done that in years.. Publishers nowdays seem to remove the extra space, which I have included here -->.. They also format the beginning of new sections in strange ways, including left-justification and capital letters for the first few words, sometimes even enlargening the font to an exaggerated degree.. Times, it seems, are changing, and with it has come a more casual, stylistic approach to formatting.. They also like to use artistic dividers, for no real purpose other than aesthetic reasons.


-~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~-

KarlR
January 12th, 2012, 02:45 AM
So I'd say it's pretty much a useless anachronism these days.

Ouch.

*Feeling like a useless anachronism.*

The Backward OX
January 12th, 2012, 02:52 AM
Does anyone here remember the days when the words "Mary," "merry," and "marry" were pronounced differently? My guess is that all three words now have the same, identical pronunciation.

Dunno about marry but as to Mary and merry I'd say, only in America. We still differentiate them. Anyone anywhere pronouncing merry as Mary, if it was in the context of Xmas, would sound like they didn't mean it. Merry Xmas is expected to have an uplifting bounce to it and Mary Xmas doesn't. As I said, only in America. You've all become jaded.

Gamer_2k4
January 12th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Dunno about marry but as to Mary and merry I'd say, only in America. We still differentiate them. Anyone anywhere pronouncing merry as Mary, if it was in the context of Xmas, would sound like they didn't mean it. Merry Xmas is expected to have an uplifting bounce to it and Mary Xmas doesn't. As I said, only in America. You've all become jaded.

What exactly is the phonetic difference between the two?


how exactly is double spacing after a full stop 'a lazy americanism'?????

It's not. Read what he said again.

The Backward OX
January 13th, 2012, 01:34 AM
What exactly is the phonetic difference between the two?


According to the International Phonetic Alphabet, ‘merry’ is pronounced ‘meri’, while ‘Mary’ is pronounced ‘mæri’.



Mary Xmas.

Sam
January 13th, 2012, 01:53 AM
There's a reason why publishers use only one space nowadays. Less spaces between sentences equals more words per line which in turn equals less pages to print. There's no other reason for it. It's not because it's wrong or right, but because publishers are frugal.

DyingAtheist
February 20th, 2012, 12:57 PM
Born/raised in the UK and not once have I ever heard or been taught to use double spacing after sentences.

People are obviously entitled to do whichever method they wish, but I think to imply that single-spacing is "American" or "lazy" or something of the sort is a tad, over the top. It's a relic of the past, and though it makes sense that people who were raised using that method would continue to do so, those of us who've learnt to write recently would never have picked it up as a habit.

At the end of the day, it only matters what the publisher wants.

Jeff C
April 2nd, 2012, 06:02 AM
I'm a little bitter that something that was DRILLED into me in school is apparently "wrong". American here. Was told it was quite important to leave two spaces after a sentence, and will continue doing so until the day I die. I don't do it on forums but I do it in my work.

I know what you mean. I can vividly remember my key boarding teacher back in elementary school freaking out about having to make sure you spaced twice at the beginning of a new sentence...It's beyond the point of habit now. Actually, if you cut off one of my thumbs it might work though, I roll those double spaces, one space with each thumb, remove a thumb and my problem is solved lol.

shadowwalker
April 2nd, 2012, 01:51 PM
I was taught to double space when typing on a typewriter. Once on the internet, I learned not to. I go with the flow.

As to Mary, merry, marry - I've always pronounced them exactly the same. But then, I'm from the Upper Midwest, so maybe it's a Scandinavian thing. :peaceful:

Trilby
April 4th, 2012, 12:40 AM
I don't think it's particularly "American" to not put two spaces after a full stop nor would I say it's due to laziness. In the past, when typewriters were the norm it made sense to teach putting a double-space after a full stop because the characters were all monospaced, but computer word processors have been around for a long time now and have consequently caused the double-space to become somewhat redundant.

.That is what I've been led to believe

Cefor
April 5th, 2012, 01:10 AM
Never even tried to double space, and I like how an old topic has been revived.

Born and raised in the UK - never once heard of this double spacing malarkey.

On 'Merry', 'Mary', and 'marry'. They are three, distinctive, words. I love the North, me.

/meh//ree/ - Merry
/mare//ee/ - Mary
/mar//ree/ or,
/mah//ree/ - Marry ... which depends on how much emphasis on the /m/ I want to make. Usually /mar/ though, cause I don't enunciate everything all of the time.

dreamer444
April 12th, 2012, 05:29 AM
I have to use the double space. It might be my OCD, but it just doen't feel right without that second space.

lowprofile300
April 16th, 2012, 01:11 AM
To all of the people promoting double spaces after sentences... All of your posts have one space per sentence :D

Yes, I noticed that too:).