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polygamous.pariah
October 31st, 2010, 12:10 PM
Hello everyone. Just started writing and am working on a piece. Would apprieciate some constructive feedback. It may take a few reads as it is a bit unusual but it is enjoyable to write in such a style. Feel free to be as critical or as positive as you like!

Lightning.thundered.Cracking darkness and light. Drying quickly. The rain started. She stood. A light in the tomb. Of a life yet lived Stop? Lie on your.ceiling.and look at the back. Down. The end. (No!) Starting again. Look Straight back into the future. The. Word,weaved,forth back forward. There is nothing. But everything and everything, but nothing. Dancing (sham)odically. The sentence took f(ro)m. To while away a(n)d away. And far. A distorted face, a tapestry, a birth, but no death. Yes. a Death. But. No death. When he got. To where he now stood. The word scattered. Away. To only now be found. Hhheld aloft. He stared. Aswell. As the right honourable. From over, the top, of the hills. Alive. The word passed. Bringing. Interior,reconciliation,t.o! heinous. Crimes of language! Stopped! Cast into (un)original sin. Crucified. Joan stopped.noah on root.to the arc. On seventy second seas sailing. Past donkey et dog. Through lands that know le.tters. and words (un)complete. By gent(i)le jew and threw. A hoaxing. Shame to coax you, out of your . Shameless second sleep. Tis time to. Rise and shine. To .t.h.e. end of haze. To see the son, cloud, over your, deviant deities.past to end and round again.. to never stop. And never flow. No end but no begging!?! To put an sto.p to the.end.of.the.days. and breakdown all our says. Fin.again. and commerce in tyme. Tis a shameful shame indeed! The polygamous.pariah. Looking over his.birth.tight. Silently scolding. For the love of (C)od. Towash away, your, sins in endless. Waves. Chased by white. Whore(ses). Enoght to make, the pope, blus. Eh!.Pat. He talked past his exe. With ground to the eyes. time warming (w)ficiently.slaying satans salty serpent. Driven to eireland.to return?Never.
The queen of (mice.) awoke. With win(ey)e whispers and. Venomous. Vulgation(S) Downcast. She sat sadly.son. Mun. Stars. Hades,hazy,haze hindered. Too much.Enough never. Begginnings.end. S,a,m.e. O.l.d. Faze. A bitterness of opinion. Of many feasted. Prostrated at the foot of the alter. His sun. Pride and boy.crying over split whiskey like a childe! The River pulsed. and roared. Flowing north.southernly. Past. Hills and shores, taking turns and twist.s. Past cities towns villages, countries. Continents. Stopping short of the western south town where he dwells. Two and twenty years since. Death and re. Discovery. Mother look Up at her child. Eyes closed and shut. His name a passing blur. St. Ev.ery. Von Etc Nom. To dwell. Now (No.then?). My Uncom.parabllle. Might.

Bucky24
November 1st, 2010, 11:05 PM
It's really hard to read. Maybe that's by design?

Sonofjoe
November 2nd, 2010, 11:15 AM
Can I ask; Why are you using this unusual way of writing? Can you explain your sentence structuring to me, as I can not understand this peice at all. Maybe its me :(

Mistique
November 2nd, 2010, 11:44 AM
I tried and tried again and read it several times as you suggested, but honestly I don't get it and that makes it impossible for me to provide any kind of response. It does puzzle me and I do want to get it, so I guess that is a good thing. It strikes me as somewhat poetic rather than fictional, but even then I don't get it.

jnimri
November 2nd, 2010, 03:09 PM
I understand you're taking a personal creative approach to your writing and that is fantastic. Express yourself however you feel you want. The only problem with it is that your audience will not be very big. That might be fine with you and it might just be about the art which is wonderful, but I think you will lose a lot of readers because of that style. Hell, you could be a trend setter. E.E. Cummings is difficult to read but he made quite a splash in the world of poetry.

Bruno Spatola
November 2nd, 2010, 08:03 PM
I like the style, if it is a style, but it's what you've actually written that's the problem. I'm liking the sort of sporadic voice this is being told in, but what you've written isn't very coherent. It doesn't have to be coherent, this is your story, no-one can tell you how to write, but you write in such a way that is more confusing than entertaining.

Maybe you think of this as a puzzle to be cracked, like something written in binary code, and I can see it working with very short pieces such as this one here, but maybe try and help the reader just a little bit. Keep this style, I'm sure you can do something a lot better with it.

What are your motives? Are you planning to write a novel this way or was this just a test? It looks like you were making it up on the spot as you started typing, which is probably a good excercise, but I cannot see myself reading stuff like this at length without getting bored.

It's quite cool, it's fun and I did like it, but I wouldn't write this way too often. It's your choice.

So yeah, don't ditch this way of writing, if you keep at it I don't doubt you could end up with something really special, but put a bit more thought into it next time is what I mean, because there were lots of errors, as I'm sure you are aware. Take out a few unnecessary blockades and barriers, like some of the bracketed letters and such. They look nice, but they make it unpleasant to read. If you make the reader keep stopping and starting, I'm pretty sure they'd stop reading soon after. There were many full stops that could have been commas too, and would have made it much less "machine gunny", if that makes sense to you?

Good luck, I liked it but you need to really work hard for this to amount into anything people take seriously. That isn't me being mean, but most people would skip this simply for the way it's structured.

Hope this helps :D

Scarlett_156
November 2nd, 2010, 08:36 PM
As we there are where are we are we there UNDE ET UBI. (http://www.trentu.ca/faculty/jjoyce/cgi-bin/row.cgi?FP=260.01&LP=260.08&T=R) 1 (http://www.trentu.ca/faculty/jjoyce/cgi-bin/row.cgi?FP=260.01)
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stonefly
November 3rd, 2010, 03:41 AM
A friend of mine had a baby daughter, less than a year old. She could already walk and would go to the screen door and shout out in a voice so loud I was amazed.

She said, "BADOYAGUGGA!!"

She hollered it out to the world about twenty times a day.

As time went on she learned to speak the words that we all use in daily discourse, but to me, the most beautiful thing she ever said was "BADOYAGUGGA."

Just keep doin' what you're doin.'

It's beautiful.

NorwegianWriter
November 3rd, 2010, 03:51 PM
It's difficult to read, but you have something I believe. Some of the other say; is it a style or not, and that was a good comment I believe. It reads a bit uncoherrent, rambling, but therein lies also the beauty. Maybe a whole book of this will be to much ... Somewhere however I kind of loose contact with it all. Remember that all good prose, I believe, should be organic, have some kind of flow ... An energy that keep us reading. You have it, then loose it. Believe you loose it around:

Grapefight
November 4th, 2010, 03:08 PM
Serious question: Do you write like this because you don't think you're any good at writing "normally"? You say you just started writing, which makes me suspect you're looking for shortcuts to get past that awkward period where you don't know jack about strong sentence structure and you're struggling to find your voice, cuz that is exactly how it was for me. I started flipping through The Soft Machine by Burroughs one day and I was like, "Neat! So incoherent gibberish is a perfectly suitable substitute for making a lick of sense? Boy is that gonna save me a lot of time!" Because, yeah, shortcuts are seductive; while reading Strunk & White for thirty seconds a day is slightly difficult, banging your keyboard with your face until you're sure nobody will be able to tell that you're new to writing is... well actually, that sounds way harder than reading Strunk & White.

Scarlett_156
November 4th, 2010, 04:15 PM
A friend of mine had a baby daughter, less than a year old. She could already walk and would go to the screen door and shout out in a voice so loud I was amazed.

She said, "BADOYAGUGGA!!"

She hollered it out to the world about twenty times a day.

As time went on she learned to speak the words that we all use in daily discourse, but to me, the most beautiful thing she ever said was "BADOYAGUGGA."

Just keep doin' what you're doin.'

It's beautiful.

Yeah totally. I was looking at Smudge trying to find his car keys this morning in the dark with a bad hangover and he was saying stuff like that. It wasn't what I would call "beautiful" but it was hella entertaining.

polygamous.pariah
November 5th, 2010, 10:24 PM
Thank you very much for reading my piece and giving feedback. Its good to hear what people think! I understand that it is may seem like its full of mistakes but every thing is in there for a reason.
I decided to write in this 'style' as i'm trying to do something different. I'm trying to do something that challenges and maybe even 'offends' the norms that are expected. I see the english language as something that is there to be played round with. I'll be honest, your comments excited me greatly. I understand that not everyone will get what i'm trying to do and thats fine! Your criticism is very constructive and I thank you for that.
I dont know if i'm trying to write a novel, short story or poetry. I just write whats in my head. And believe it or not, ive never written under the influence of drugs or alcohol!!
That you agin for all your comments!

Kordain
November 6th, 2010, 06:12 AM
i've got no clue about what this is about. i've read it and i just can't decipher. i don't even know if this is writing. ? i see no characters, no plots, no setting, just something that is incoherent. i don't get what you're trying to do. i never suspect people of drug use when they write something that is creative or different. i might read it again if it makes sense. i don't know how helpful i can be when i can't figure what language you speak. i really hope this is not part of some psychology experiment because you'll get lots of data.

Dark
November 6th, 2010, 09:22 AM
Matters not if this is an experiment, auto writing or just random words.
If readers can't understand what you are trying to convey, what is the point?

Bruno Spatola
November 6th, 2010, 07:20 PM
You could say the same thing about a piece of art. "What's the point of painting that if people can't understand what you're trying to convey?", it doesn't matter, in my opinion. It's artistic expression, do what you like. . .if some people like it, that's good. If some do not, well, that's good too.

Like when Damien Hirst revealed the skull with diamonds on it, I thought "What's the point of that? Waste of money, doesn't even mean anything." That's my own opinion, but I know to some people it does mean something. The artist might just be doing it for a laugh, who knows. Same thing here, it might not be clear what this "story" is about or what it's "for", but for some people those things will be clear as day.

Totally subjective in the end, but that's what I think :P.

polygamous.pariah
November 7th, 2010, 11:29 AM
Sometimes things are not as easy to understand. I make no apologies for writing something that is difficult to understand. I want people to think when they read my work. I've read so many books that you just read and discard. The best books in my opinion are the ones that make you go back and read again. That challenge you! James Joyce said about Ulysses that "I've put in so many enigmas and puzzles that will keep professors busy for centuries arguing what i meant, and thats the only way of insuring one's immortality" Couldn't agree more. There is a story line in what i've written and there are three characters. I wanted to write something that would bring out a reaction in people. I'm glad your all letting me know what you think. Criticism is as good as praise to me!

Jeep121262
November 12th, 2010, 02:00 AM
Heroin.

polygamous.pariah
November 14th, 2010, 01:59 PM
Heroin.

Nope, no heroin involved i'm afraid.

Written a bit more.

Pity poor pat. Petrified of his own person. Painting purgatory in poison. Waiting at the wailing wall to whisper wondrous.words. By the star of david.i pronounce you man and knife! Abel abel anticipated, Callous cains conception. With jo.king jesus jealous.(y)! Wine into water, across the sea of the living.to see the guru. Of no.name but nanak.
King cainan of Karachi. Of no fixed abode.and of no.next of kinship.sailed sporadically. By the blight of Barabbas!thats no way to treat the anti.christ. To travel. By sailor of by pilate? The holy river that travels still.past the birth place of the almighty.washing pebble and stone towards. The day of heckling.
For twenty days and twenty nights threw tenement.bar.and the sand of music.he shed his sins. Thinking pints of beer and drinking of the past.Blurry eyed and decent. A drink good time was held by all.to the prickly bush and welcoming arms. Of poorly paul and benediction bill. With sinful sobriety. Out by eleven.in by twelve. The green fields of farce await. Venereal vexing and torrent temper. Past house.and home. Passing time of day. To all that listen but few. Rising and shining on Sabbath Saturday.secreting sexual sane(ness).

KrisMunro
November 14th, 2010, 02:33 PM
I read this as if the character (hopefully not the writer) is loosing a part of his mind. It makes sense only if you pause at nearly every word to reassess and align concepts and meanings. And those meanings are mostly separate from the other sections of the piece.

For people that are used to speed reading, it will not be a piece that processes well in their brains. Those that read slower will find more meaning in it (which is why I'm assuming most comments here relate to cohesion).

Personally, I liked the disjointed style. The use of brackets was nice, but could have been put to better use; such as creating a duality of meanings. As an example (made up on the fly, so don't expect too much from me):

"Lightning. Thunder. Cracking darkness with light. Sensations for(m) my eyes. An afterglow of the bar(rage). A collusion of light+drink."
And it only needs to be about a man enjoying the storm at a bar(, and getting his lights punched out in a fight).

As readers, we're looking to understand your meaning. We want to learn something, to experience something we've not had before. That new drug that's hiding behind the front cover; lines of 'eye candy'. You came close; making a new formula. You just need to understand your customers better.

Olly Buckle
November 14th, 2010, 02:37 PM
James Joyce said about Ulysses that "I've put in so many enigmas and puzzles that will keep professors busy for centuries arguing what i meant, and thats the only way of insuring one's immortality"I do not know the quote, but I would be willing to bet he capitalised the first person, put an apostrophe in "that's" and said "ensuring".

polygamous.pariah
November 14th, 2010, 02:41 PM
I do not know the quote, but I would be willing to bet he capitalised the first person, put an apostrophe in "that's" and said "ensuring".

Yes, he probably did. You get the point though.

Joanne_B
November 15th, 2010, 07:41 PM
I do not know the quote, but I would be willing to bet he capitalised the first person, put an apostrophe in "that's" and said "ensuring".

I've read the quote and it's "insuring".

Joanne_B
November 15th, 2010, 07:42 PM
Really enjoy your style of writing, more please!

Grapefight
November 15th, 2010, 10:58 PM
I'm just not convinced that you actually know what you're doing, but I guess that's because I'm me and not you. Let me be blunt though:

The piece you originally posted was incoherent and boring. Not paradoxical and challenging; incoherent and boring. Maybe you should make an effort to connect with your readers rather than spewing gibberish at them, which I frankly find insulting. Of course, I know I probably sound like a total a-hole right now, so I'd be pretty relieved to be proven totally wrong about you. Just do me a favor. Tell me what this means:

The sentence took f(ro)m.

Why is it arranged this way? What's with the parentheses? Is it a typo? What are you trying to say? Seriously, help me out here.

garza
November 16th, 2010, 12:46 AM
polygamous.pariah - I tried to read it, but the first problem I had was the block of super-bold typeface unbroken by paragraphs. The second problem is the language.

Joyce never wrote nonsense. Joyce expected his readers to be able to understand at least the surface story he told, even as they were puzzled by some of what he said. My favourite poet is Wallace Stevens. His poetry is not always easy to understand, but it is not nonsense.

Draxia
November 16th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Your peice is too curt. A reader doesn't want writing thrown in their face. Slow down, and move your peice at a managable pace.

polygamous.pariah
November 16th, 2010, 04:39 PM
I've been reading your comments and i'm really grateful for the feedback. I'm amused about how much reaction I seem to have got out of people.
Who writes the rules when it comes to writing? Who says that things have to be simple? Who says that a full stop cant be put in the wrong place?
It may be 'incoherent', it may be 'boring' but I dont think its as bad as some people make out!
There is a basic story being provided in the section's i've put on here. Its about birth. Its the birth of a child and also the birth of a new un-restricted language. No barriers and no rules.You have three characters. The father (Pat), the Mother (As yet un-named but under the title of Queen of Mice) and you also have the Son (Steven). The beginning concerns the birth of the son but also the absence of the father. It may not be as easy to work out but its in there. You might just have to work for it. I know a few people wont want to and thats fine, its upto the reader. I have nothing to lose. I'm just writing because I want to. No other reason.

valo123
November 16th, 2010, 05:33 PM
No one's saying it has to be simple, man. You should, however, ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish by this sort of writing. It seems like you might be getting a kick out of people not understanding something that's not intended to be understood (I see all the blatancy about the birth, I just assumed that was a metaphor for something else, given your style and all).

I think most the backlash is coming from your attitude, I know it's hard to tell with words on a screen, but you come across as a little self righteous, maybe a little hard headed even. You say people have to work for the story, but that's just not right. A story is entertainment, and if you're including a story it should be understandable. Symbolism and theme are intended to accent a story, not drown it out (I know you'll say, who said that, and why should they be right?) The same reason wheels are round, bro. It's more efficient. It makes sense.

KrisMunro
November 17th, 2010, 12:48 AM
In some respects, I agree with Valo here, and I don't disagree on other parts.

Language has a formal structure purely because people need a common ground by which to communicate. Without a common ground, society would not exist.

Creating a 'new un-restricted language'... I'm not sure where to begin with this. It feels like you've asked our opinion on something you've designed for us to not be able to read/understand. I think this is why Valo explains his interpretation of you as coming across as self righteous.


Who writes the rules when it comes to writing? Who says that things have to be simple? Who says that a full stop cant be put in the wrong place?.
This is a complex topic, but the point is that a full stop has to be in the right place because people expect that it means something specific. When it's out of context/place, it leaves the reader confused and unsure of what to make of it. I may as well ask you what '$hope f).r li,ve' means.. I may well have determined some meaning in it, but nearly all readers wont. Thus I'd get feedback saying 'what are you doing?'.

If, after someone reads your story, you need to explain core aspects of it, it shows a need to revisit the piece.

I don't think I've explained the need for rules within writing enough, but I don't want to harp on about this. I love that you're exploring something new, and you're trying to make it work. I really appreciate your attachment to it and your defense of the work (it tells me you've put a lot of effort into it - which is a good thing). But as a reader, making sense of it hurts my brain.

Just remember that you're delving into a new area, and in general, people dislike change.

polygamous.pariah
November 17th, 2010, 04:47 PM
People may dislike change, but I welcome it. It's time the world got interesting.

stonefly
November 17th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Just keep it up.

Eventually one of two things is going to happen.

One, what you have to say will evolve in form and eventually win for you a satisfactory following, or two, it will stall where it is and you'll end up writing things which only you will ever read.

It's just like the infant I knew. Her "BADOYAGUGGA" was charming, beautiful, and innovative. The child kept her charm, her beauty, and continued, in an innovative manner, her struggle with the language structure familiar to us all.

I think the challenge is to keep the beauty, charm, and innovative approach, while taking part in a world where it matters whether or not you can be understood and appreciated by others.

Grapefight
November 22nd, 2010, 01:24 AM
People may dislike change, but I welcome it. It's time the world got interesting.

A question: you do realize that there have been other writers before you, right? If you really want to do something memorable, you have to actually make an effort. You've got thousands of years worth of writers who actually had something to say and who actually tried to make their message understood to compete with.

Stop worrying about being original and just friggin write.

bazz cargo
March 9th, 2011, 11:12 PM
Hi, I sort of got here by accident, followed a link through Mistique's profile page. One of life's little quirks.
So, are you taking the urine ? If so, more power to your elbow.
If not, here is my reading feelinmg. As a species we are supervly adapted to pattern recognition. And the nag of sthe spell chuckers red likne is nit esdy to ingoer. Part uf the reesen the engiksh lingae has beem standerdizsed is help wif claiyt.
You plough your own furrow, but don't expect many seagulls to follow.
Bazz
PS>? I may pinch your style for a drug induced dream sequence.